Judy Topinka’s Sop to Social Conservatives
The winner of the Republican Party’s lieutenant governor’s race, Joe Birkett, laid out the winner’s lure to social conservatives on television tonight.
He said that he and Judy Topinka would fight for parental notification prior to a girl’s being able to get an abortion.
Birkett asked why Illinois was the only Midwestern state without such a law.
So, now the question is whether that will be enough to keep social conservatives from staying home or bolting to support the Constitution Party’s gubernatorial candidate Randall C. Stubblebeam.
Will Topinka’s stand on homosexuality turn them off more than this minor advance in the pro-life agenda?
73 comments:
Both Topinka and Birkett can forget my vote! I am conservative and everyone I know is staying home, voting for Stufflebeam, or voting for Rod in protest.
I will not vote for either of them.
I refusse to vote for either of them. I too will vote for Stufflebeam or vote for Rod in protest
I am not voting for them either and I am a conservative. I will tell others the same. PACS and many statewide and national organizations are preparing stay at home campaigns or protest votes.
I think all three of you should either grow up or leave the party.
You mean Topinka's stand that we be treated as human beings? The horror! The horror!
It's horribly foolish for social conservatives to stay away from Topinka over same sex marriage.
You can make a conservative case for it...
...there are other far more important social issues they can make some advances with JBT and Birkett down in Springfield.
The let this issue get in their way there is a real problem.
While I wont' stay at home, I certainly WON'T vote for JBT.
I strongly suspect any such "ban" will have more holes than a slice of swiss cheese.
Let her win without me.
I also won't vote for JBT. Let's all stand together and DEFEAT JBT.
It's a shame when 64% votes against a person! That's what happeened to Topinka! I ain't voting for her. She can win without this conservative.
Personally, I think she will do more harm than good anyhow.
I love how all the moderates and liberals say we need to grow up and vote for Topinka, where we these people when we ran Keyes? They stayed home or voted for Obama! And now they want us to vote for Topinka, who is Pro-choice, anti-marriage, refuse to take a tax cut pledge, and is tied with the George Ryan Crowd!
No way, we are staying home until the Republican party becomes REPUBLICAN again.
I don't believe there is really any difference between Topinka & Blago. In some ways, Topinka seems even more liberal than Blago. The token parental right thing is a joke, and I have trouble believing her anyway with her record and publically stated beliefs and actions. So the next 4 years are a wash. I will probably vote for Blago to make sure there is an opportunity for a different Republican candidate next election, unless there is a fair chance at a 3rd party candidate. It is clear from the numbers that the majority of Repubs do not want Top. Unfortunately, split votes are split votes. Too bad we don't have runoff elections like some other countries when the vote does not reach a majority.
Lets see how many times C.P. can post in this thread under different names!
You know. as much as I hate to see us lose elections, the idea of some of you staying home permanently may not be a bad one. Without you, we wouldn't have been faced with holding our noses for Keyes. We wouldn't have won, but we didn't anyway. I worry that the next time you will find us a Hale.
I hate to tell you anonie! that I only posted under Conservative Proletariat under this threat, I know a lot of people who feel the same way I do. You can trick yourself into thinking I am part of some tiny fringe, but the truth is the conservative vote will primarily stay at home rather than vote Topinka.
So is too liberal, she is a liberal Democrat with a (R) in her name, why in the world should I vote for her?
I can give you 5 billion reasons to vote for her...a $5B deficit. She's got my vote if she can straighten that out. Blago is just going to spend, spend, spend.
You don't have to vote for her but be prepared to pay for it come tax time.
Keyes wasn't even from Illinois, how could you expect us to support a candidate brought in from the outside as a lame duck. It truly says something about Republicans who are more concerned with their own ideology than getting Rod out of office. No wonder the Dem's have been doing so well.
Schnorf makes a good point, who are you going to put up nex,t a candidate who supports segregation and the return of prohibition? Some of you are stuck in an age that died a long time ago, it's time to move on and embrace the future.
JBT deserves the same loyalty from rank and file conservative Republicans as Peter Fitzgerald got from her.
Don't discount the impact of the national election if it becomes a referendum on impeachment of Bush.
That good galvanize a lot of people.
What folks think now and a few months from now can be awfully different.
If the future is Judy, then I am not comming.
Listen to yourselves for a minute. We have to stop Rod, We have to beat Rod, We have defeat Rod, ect....
Your replacing him with someone who is just as bad if not worse. The majority of the country is going conservative. Did you see the county map in 2004? Why is Illinois the only midwest state that thinks the future is liberal?
I am a republican because of my principles. If the party sells out its principles just so they THINK they can win, then I think they are worse the democrats.
By the way Judy only got around 37% of the vote, between Oberweis and Brady it was 49% (last I checked) This party is still conservative!
We have and do come out and vote for moderates in this state. I voted for Topinka for treasurer as a sign of support to the party when it needed me the most, I didn't like her, but I bit my lip and took one for the party. Then I watched the party bring Keyes in, leave him out to dry, and then blame conservatives for losing. Now I am supposed to smile and support a liberal for governor?
What did you people expect conservatives to do after all that!?
We are loyal to the party, but we have limits. Topinka crosses the line of our limits. We will not vote for her.
It's people like you that voted the governor in last time so you are Democrat not Republican and good riddance to anyone that does not want to unify our party.Either that or you are party people trying to get more votes for Blago.
We have and do come out and vote for moderates in this state. I voted for Topinka for treasurer as a sign of support to the party when it needed me the most, I didn't like her, but I bit my lip and took one for the party. Then I watched the party bring Keyes in, leave him out to dry, and then blame conservatives for losing.
Well said. And Judy's shining leadership in that was to sugggest who??? Was "seeing you a black, and raising a woman" (to use poker speak) HER idea?
Any since JBT is really Blago light, why should I vote for her? We all know what Truman said about that.....
Illinois ISN'T a conservative state...when will you people realize this...it isn't a coincidence that both senators, all statewide officeholders (except JBT), and the GA are controlled by Dem's. This isn't Georgia, like it or not extreme right doesn't play here.
Just because I or those like me aren't conservative on social issues doesn't mean i'm not a Republican. Moderates get painted as being too liberal. Do we really want a narrow minded view that doesn't leave room for other ideas? I welcome all points of view in the party, whether I agree with them or not...Obviously some of you don't feel that way and it's truly sad.
I voted for Ryan in the last election. I want the party unified, but not if we are going liberal. Why is this so hard to understand?
I am a conservative. I have principles. I have beliefs. I just don't sell them out because I want to have a governor with a (R) behind the name. That (R) has to stand for something.
If I wanted a liberal governor, then I would be a democrat. I want a conservative, so I am a republican.
now I have liberal Judy or liberal Rod to choose from and you are wondering why I don't want to vote?
Are abortion and homosexuality that big of deal with all the REAL problems we have in Illinois? These two issues are highly unlikely to come before the general assembly, that would be political suicide in a state that's "closely" divided.
Social (i.e. flame) issues should never come before issues such as education and the financial welfare of the state. Shouldn't we as a party be inclusive to more than one view on an issue or should we keep portraying the sterotypical WASP image that get's labeled on us Dems?
BY Dems...sorry
isu rep,
Those issue are very important to us, but that is not all. Republicans believe in limited government, low taxes, gun rights, ect...
We don't trust Judy on any of these issues. She is not a moderate, she is a liberal. I can vote for most moderates, but I am not voting for a liberal. Don't you understand there were a lot of people we could vote for who weren't that conservative, but Topinka is a liberal democrat with a (R) behind her name.
And how does Senator Meeks threatening to run as a third party candidate for governor affect things?
Would he be honest enough to call his party the "Tax Hike Party?"
I am a Republican because of my values not because it's the party of choice but the party I fit underneath of.
When that party sells out my values, I will not support them.
I will not vote for Judy Barr Topinka in November. I may not actively campaign against her, but I will not vote for her.
The way I see it: I am 19 years old and will be at least 30 before Illinois has another conservative governor. Either way this election, a liberal wins. In 2010, I think Lisa Madigan will run and win especially if Judy wins in November. Merely because people will see she's just the same as others.
I don't even know if she'll be able to make it through the general election. She could barely handle the heat Oberweis, Gidwitz, and Martin were throwing at here. Bad news Judy, they just let out the Big Money Man Rod Blagojevich.
I hope within the first 90 days they blitz this state with anti-Judy propaganda and tear her apart!
I of course disagree Conservative...but perhaps because I know more about her as the person and what she has done in the treasurer's office. Not listening to silly rhetoric and made up accusations. Shes not going to take away your gun's and she was realistic in saying taxes might have to be raised...a politician can promise you until they are blue in the face about taxes (i.e. G H W Bush) it doesn't make it true. Illinois is facing a fiscal crisis brought about by GROD and his cronies in the GA...is it really worth allowing that to continue for 4 more years, just because she doesn't agree with you on everything?
It just seems odd that because your candidate didn't win you are going to have the "i'm taking my ball and going home" mentality. I've always been a team player and supported candidates I didn't necessarily like, because I'm realistic in the fact that not everyone has the same views, but at the core we all want a better government. You have a great conservative to vote for in Birkett, this ticket offers a little bit of something to everyone across the Republican spectrum.
Rod is going to be a formidable opponent regardless who he was up against, to say that we have less of a chance because of JBT is unrrealistic. Middle of the road is the key in Illinois.
SCS, you'll be a lot older than 30 by the time Illinois has a conservative governor.
Illinois is the only midwestern state not going conservative because it's the only one with a really large city in it.
Blago lite is better than Blago.
Why is it that people who oppose one form of marriage call themselves pro-marriage? I don't see how what other people are doing is going to hurt hetero marriages.
If Topinka goes through with it, parental consent is better than nothing.
Y'all social conservatives are a hoot. Sleep it off, sober up, and think about what you're doing. And if you decide to stay home next November, because it's better to be right and out of power than to compromise and get something, good riddance. Judy can win without you. Heck, even Eisendrath polled better than Obie, and you can't think anobody who's so mad at Rod that they'd vote for Edwin will later vote to re-elect.
Opps. I posted this right before midnight, but wanted today' date. Looks like I didn't hit the botton to change the PM to AM. Sorry.
CP -
“Republicans believe in limited government, low taxes, gun rights, ect...”
- yes they do. And last time I check, Judy was in favor of lower taxes, promised to make the state “live within it’s means,” and had an A rating from the NRA. So what’s the problem?
“Why is Illinois the only midwest state that thinks the future is liberal”
- It’s not. What about Wisconsin, Michigan, and Minnesota? They are pretty liberal, aren’t they?
I think ISU rep is completely right. The social issues that are so important to you are NEVER going to make it to the Governor’s desk anyway….because they’ll NEVER make it out of the GA. Perhaps a parental consent bill would….and hey, look, Judy would sign that! (Rod won’t) But anything beyond that is a pipe dream. So, gays will get rights, and abortion on demand for adults may continue to be legal no matter who wins this November. So why cast a “protest vote” for the guy who will continue to allow your 14 year old daughter to get an abortion without your knowledge just to spite the lady that wouldn’t just because she isn’t willing to go further? Where is the virtue in such all-or-nothing demands?
I guess it doesn’t matter that we have a wretchedly incompetent governor running the state into the ground. Social issues aside, how –specifically - would Judy be ‘just as bad or worse’ than Rod in the actual management of this state’s government? Please back up your rhetoric with specifics.
I am a pro-life, pro-traditional marriage, pro-gun, anti-tax, ant-welfare conservative. I am a republican because of my principles as well. But I understand that my principles, as a whole, are not shared by enough of the voters in this state to allow a candidate that shares them all to be competitive. Sometimes we can’t get EVERYTHING we want. But refusing to accept some of the things we want just because we can’t have the rest is immature and childish, plain and simple.
It's actually funny to see these JBT partisans telling people to suck it up for the good of their party. Funny they didn't demand JBT do the same thing when she and LaHood and Hastert and others determined that Barack Obama would be a better Senator than Peter Fitzgerald. I don't remember regular party types saying "refusing to accept some of the things we want just because we can’t have the rest is immature and childish, plain and simple" or "think about what you're doing".
She's getting what she deserves. Nobody should be crying about come chickens coming home to roost.
As an aside, I found it laughable that she (after 12 years as treasurer and being in the legislature before that) has no idea where the budget can be cut and needs to "study" it. Give me a break! You can't even claim she's a "fiscal conservative" (which she isn't, anyway). I'll bet Blagojevich is laughing all the way to the polls. And Obama will be there with him thanking JBT for her services.
Obama was a rising star that was likely to win anyway regardless of who ran against him or have you not see how much the media loves him?! As always if you choose not to vote for her thats fine, but when you don't get support for conservative candidates in future elections i.e. the senate race in '08 you'll know why. Some of us are committed to winning, you say were not Republicans yet were the ones who are supporting the nominee. Or are the 38% who voted for JBT not Republicans...are Jim Edgar, Ray Lahood, and Tom Cross not Republicans? Let's be real if our party is ever to gain prominence again its not going to be through an ultra conservative candidates.
Secondly, why isn't she fiscally conservative? I'd like some proof of that...Thirdly, I'm assuming you've never seen the Illinois state budget,theres literally tens of thousands of items. Had she of provided an answer some of you would of said, well thats not specific enough..the treasurer is the bank of the state as far as investing, the comptroller writes the checks...
Wesley,
Please back up your statements with citations. When did Topinka, Hastert and LaHood conclude that Obama would be a better Senator than Fitzgerald, and how did that conclusion manifest itself. Seems like a pointless conclusion for them to have made anyway, since Obama didn’t run against Fitzgerald.
BTW, I didn’t vote for Keyes. I didn’t vote for Obama either. But it had nothing to do with ideology. I loudly mocked the people of New York for electing the carpet-bagging Mrs. Clinton, and I didn’t think this would have been any better.
I think it's funny how the only specific issues that you, CP, and others can cite in regards to JBT being “liberal” is abortion and gay rights. Aside from those, how is JBT a “liberal?” Be specific, my friend.
If you want to have this debate, let’s have it. But, please, back up you rhetoric with examples. Last time I checked, real conservatives and Republicans took pride in arguing with the help of the facts. Let’s hear your facts.
GOP - Funny, I didn't say anything about her being "liberal", "abortion", "Gay rights".
Apparently you didn't see where she said she didn't know where she could cut the budget. After 12 years as treasurer!!!! And she's a fiscal conservative? She's open to raising taxes and she's a fiscal conservative? When Blagojevich says he won't raise them and she's a fiscal conservative? She's a Ryan crony and she's for good government?
She wouldn't endorse Fitzgerald. Went on Tom Roeser's show and said she wouldn't endorse him. A sitting U.S. Senator of her party in which she is chairman is up for reelection and wouldn't endorse him. This is long before Fitzgerald decided not to run. Please tell me about her loyalty to her party. (And we haven't even gone into how she endorses Democrats in Riverside. As chairman of the party. And you expect party rank and file people to be loyal to her? Ha!)
Her chickens are coming home to roost.
BTW, I'm not a Republican and wish you guys and Blago and the Democrats all the best and hope you can rid yourselves of the neocons and leftists in your ranks. Doubt it will ever happen, though, and that's too bad. You'll never restore fiscal sanity to this state.
Wesley: Apparently you did not see my comments about what the treasurer actually does, it helps to know the role of the constituitional officer before you berate them for not knowing something that isn't part of their job.
Secondly, if you believe Rod isn't going to raise taxes if he's reelected then I have a nice piece of swampland in the bayou i'd like to sell you...She never said she was going to raise taxes what she said is what we need to do is get our house in order which means a) either cutting programs so we don't have to raise taxes or b) raise taxes so we can afford these programs...there are really no other alternatives besides that, unless you like raiding pension funds...
“Funny, I didn't say anything about her being "liberal", "abortion", "Gay rights"”
-you are right. That comment should have been specifically directed at CP.
“Apparently you didn't see where she said she didn't know where she could cut the budget. After 12 years as treasurer!!!”
- Apparently, you are right. Apparently, thought, you don’t understand what exactly the functions of the Treasurer are. I’d be more concerned if the Governor or a member of the GA made the same claim, since they actually write and vote on the budget. What exactly is the role of the Treasurer in the budget process?
“And she's a fiscal conservative? She's open to raising taxes and she's a fiscal conservative? When Blagojevich says he won't raise them and she's a fiscal conservative?”
- there is more to being a fiscal conservative than promising not raise taxes, my friend. What about business fees (Rod certainly raised those once before, good thing he didn’t promise not to do it again!)? What about properly managing debts and pension obligations? Rod may not have raised taxes during the past 4 years. He may not if he gets another 4. But he has placed the state’s finances in the position of requiring a significant raise sometime in the next 10 years. If Judy can fix the mess by temporarily or slightly raising taxes right now to make sure a larger, more permenant raise isn’t required in the future, isn’t that responsible, conservative fiscal management (disclaimer: I am certainly NOT saying that is what Judy is planning to do. I am just spitting this out by way of saying that promising to raise taxes may not be the end-all, be-all of fiscal responsibility.)
“she's a Ryan crony and she's for good government?”
- define crony. She gave back all the money she ever got from him. Just because she ran on the same ticket a few times, she must be tainted forever? Didn’t Oberweis seek Ryan’s endorsement in the ’02 Senate Primary?
“She wouldn't endorse Fitzgerald. Went on Tom Roeser's show and said she wouldn't endorse him. A sitting U.S. Senator of her party in which she is chairman is up for reelection and wouldn't endorse him. This is long before Fitzgerald decided not to run.”
- That is true, but it’s a different story than your previous post. If this was before Fitz decided not to run again, then what does Obama (not even a candidate at that point) have to do with it? Wasn’t she actually saying that she wouldn’t endorse him in the primary? And she was hardly the only party leader to distance herself from Fitz, who was hardly a team player. In fact, he never wanted or sought the support of the party leadership/establishment (wasn’t that his shtick?) so why should they have given it?
But, this is all beside the point anyway. (Funny, I don’t think I was talking about supporting her because of party loyalty). Let’s talk about the issues. What issues is she just as bad or worse than Blago on? Will she leave the states finances in just as much a mess? If so, explain why you think so. Will she take away gun owners rights? Not according to the NRA. Issue, my friend. Let’s talk issues.
ISU - I know what the treasurer does. I know it's "the bank" as (you so eloquently put it) of the state. So what?
She's been in the state government (12 years as treasurer, years before that as legislator). She doesn't know where to cut the budget? And she's in the state government government? Common legislators who are running for the first time know where you can cut. She's been in for nearly two decades and she can't tell us what she will cut? And you say that's fiscal conservative? Give me a break.
And while we're at it, since you're trying to prove she's a fiscal conservative and the burden of proof is on you, tell me where she will cut, where her no taxes pledge is? Blagojevich is looking to the right of her fiscally. She won't even say she'll do away with the kiddie-care program. She "look
at it. What odds do you want to give that it stays were she in charge?
Had she provided an answer?!?!?!? So she doesn't want to answer questions but expects people (conservatives, even) just to vote for her anyway based on ... what? She won't take the tax pledge, she won't say where she'll cut. She's open to raising taxes. That's enough right there to prove she's not fiscally conservative. Congratulations. You've certainly found a winner. "Get our house in order" without specifics or reassurances. That'll unify people around her. Meanwhile the Democrat is pledging not to raise taxes. And who's the fiscal conservative?
As far as supporting conservatives in '08, again, where was she when Fitzgerald was up in '04? Going on Tom Roeser's show refusing to endorse a sitting U.S. Senator of her own party (the first one in 2 decades, even). And you say she is committed to winning? Ha! They wanted Fitzgerald gone from Day 1. When you guys come out and rebuke her for refusing to endorse a sitting U.S. Senator of her own party, then you can talk about "committed to winning" and "our party". Give me a break! I'm guessing I'll be waiting a long time. You guys aren't interested in winning. You would have rebuked her when she dissed the only U.S. Senator you guys have had in 20 years.
Conservative Proletariat, I'ma moderate and I voted for Keyes. Did you?
Wait a minute, Wesley. You’re not a Republican? I was under the impression you were a passionate, disenchanted conservative Republican. Where exactly is your dog in this fight? Why do you care if Judy endorsed Fitz or not? Why do you care if she endorses Dems in Riverside? Why should Republicans listen to you regarding whether or not they should vote for their party’s nominee? Way to blow it, dumba**. You would have been better off pretending to be a passionate, disenchanted conservative Republican. Now everyone can just write you off as a Democrat hack trying to supress your opponent's support from her own party.
Why should anyone care what you have to say on this post?
Wesley: Since you seem so "enlightened" about Illinois politics would you mind telling us who would have been better? Also just Blago pledges not to raise taxes, what's to stop him from doing so. I don't know where you think fiscally conservative = not raising taxes, thats definitely not the defintion i've heard of it.
I cannot say where she will cut because I am not JBT, I can't speak for her. All I know is ROD won't be cutting. I think you get a little too caught up in what politicans say or don't say...actions speak louder than words, but maybe your apt to believe everything Rod says...
"If Judy can fix the mess by temporarily or slightly raising taxes right now to make sure a larger, more permenant raise isn’t required in the future, isn’t that responsible, conservative fiscal management"
When has there been a "temporary" tax increase? No, that is not conservative fiscal management. Conservative fiscal management requires not balancing your budgets on the backs of the people. It requires cutting your budgets. If she can't do this, she doesn't deserve any conservative votes. Anybody can raise taxes.
"Apparently, thought, you don’t understand what exactly the functions of the Treasurer are. I’d be more concerned if the Governor or a member of the GA made the same claim, since they actually write and vote on the budget. What exactly is the role of the Treasurer in the budget process?"
She's been in the legislature. She's been running for the past four years. She's been critical of Blagojevich's budget. Are you telling me that she was wrong to criticize his budget, since as Treasurer she has no role in the budget process and has no idea what is in the budget? If I understand you correctly, it's OK for her to be critical of the Blagojevich budget, but she shouldn't have any idea about her own budget because that's not what the Treasurer does? What?
"Just because she ran on the same ticket a few times, she must be tainted forever?"
Yes. She never said anything about Ryan when it mattered.
"Didn’t Oberweis seek Ryan’s endorsement in the ’02 Senate Primary?"
Don't know. Didn't vote for Oberweis in '02.
"If this was before Fitz decided not to run again, then what does Obama (not even a candidate at that point) have to do with it?"
Fine. If you want, change Obama to any Democrat in general (Hynes, perhaps, at the time.). She was more comfortable with a Democrat than a Fitzgerald, that was clear.
"And she was hardly the only party leader to distance herself from Fitz, who was hardly a team player."
Does hypocrisy know no bounds? You want conservatives to be "team players" when you admit yourself that she and others weren't "team players" when they had the chance to show that they could be?
"Funny, I don’t think I was talking about supporting her because of party loyalty"
Sorry, when I read you write "Sometimes we can’t get EVERYTHING we want. But refusing to accept some of the things we want just because we can’t have the rest is immature and childish, plain and simple." I would assume it applied to party loyalty. If not, you could extend that to supporting Blagojevich because we did get some things we wanted (no tax increases, for example) and not supporting him because we didn't get everything is immature and childish.
"What issues is she just as bad or worse than Blago on? Will she leave the states finances in just as much a mess? If so, explain why you think so. Will she take away gun owners rights? Not according to the NRA. Issue, my friend. Let’s talk issues."
Why don't you tell us, since you're campaigning to earn our votes. We have no dog in this fight. No reason to vote for either candidate, unless something is brought up that appeals to conservatives. So far it's Blago 1, JBT 0.
GOP: it's not worth wasting any more breath on this guy, he won't answer questions because he has no real answers hes just spewing rhetoric to ruffle feathers. He like many Blago supporter woke up this morning worried that uh oh they picked the person that can beat us, now its time and try to divide them....With that said any real democrat should support Meeks if he chooses to run.
Why should anyone listen to someone who refers to conservatives and Republicans as “you guys” about how to be a proper fiscal conservative or loyal Republican Party member. You don’t appear to have a dog in this fight other that to get Rod re-elected, which it appears would have been your goal regardless of who one the GOP primary. So what is your point here? If you are trying to exploit the obvious schisms in my (not your, to be clear) party, it will backfire. Your obvious attempt to manipulate GOP voters into staying home and not supporting JBT, thus re-electing your ultra-liberal, financially reckless, pathetic-excuse-for-a-leader Governor will bring us back together more than it will drive us further apart. Nice try, Wes.
Thanks ISU, glad to see someone else here on here today gets it.
Well i'm glad to see the Blago bloggers out in force...I knew they'd be worried, but I didn't think paranoia would set in so soon...Oh well they won't rain on my parade!!
"Wait a minute, Wesley. You’re not a Republican? I was under the impression you were a passionate, disenchanted conservative Republican."
I'm a passionate, disenchanted conservative. When there is a conservative party, I may become a member.
"Why do you care if Judy endorsed Fitz or not?"
As a conservative, I liked Fitz and as a state we miss him dearly. After he was dissed, there was no point to remaining in the party.
You guys could have signaled to conservatives you wanted them in your party by backing a conservative like Fitz. You chose to run him out. And then back the lady who ran him out. Good luck with that.
"Way to blow it, dumba**. You would have been better off pretending to be a passionate, disenchanted conservative Republican. Now everyone can just write you off as a Democrat hack trying to supress your opponent's support from her own party."
Are you people that blind that you can't see that there are other sides than just your parties? There are people who care about issues not your silly parties. When your parties don't cater to our issues, we don't cater to your party.
This is something you and your party and the other party will never understand—we conservatives do not have a party. We give our loyalties to our families, our country, and our God. We leave it to Nazis, Trotskyists, and unprincipled opportunists to proclaim their loyalty to party. Perhaps if your party showed loyalty to us, there might be a return gesture. Sadly, that has never happened and likely never will.
"Why should anyone listen to someone who refers to conservatives and Republicans as “you guys” about how to be a proper fiscal conservative or loyal Republican Party member."
I was referring to Republicans as "you guys". Not conservatives. I couldn't have been writing to conservatives while responding to you.
"You don’t appear to have a dog in this fight other that to get Rod re-elected"
You're at least right on half of that. I have no dog in this fight. I don't want to see JBT win. Not when she refers to conservatives as "nuts". I don't care for Blago, either. He's probably the lesser of the two evils and at least has a record of not raising taxes. JBT has no record and won't even say what she'll cut or won't come out against raising taxes. Ideally, it will be some conservative/libertarian third party candidate.
"Your obvious attempt to manipulate GOP voters into staying home and not supporting JBT, thus re-electing your ultra-liberal, financially reckless, pathetic-excuse-for-a-leader Governor will bring us back together more than it will drive us further apart."
I would like nothing more than to see conservative voters stay home or vote a conservative third party. Ideally, I'd like to see a third party candidate win. Not the liberal JBT or the liberal Blago. You guys could have picked Brady or Oberweis if you cared about conservative votes. You guys could have backed Fitzgerald a couple years ago when you had the chance. Heck, you guys even could have stood behind Jack Ryan when JBT and the boys jumped on him. You refused. Too bad.
"I don't know where you think fiscally conservative = not raising taxes, thats definitely not the defintion i've heard of it. "
I've never heard of a fiscal conservative who raises taxes. If the GOP candidate won't take a no-tax pledge, then they've sacrificed their number one issue (aside from social issues) and there is no point in electing them.
"actions speak louder than words, but maybe your apt to believe everything Rod says... "
He at least has a record of not raising taxes. He'll spend and she'll spend. Socially they'll be the same. That's a one up on the Republicrat candidate.
Judy, Judy, Judy... where was the "team" when you were tossing the word "morons" around?
Fact is, Blago and Topinka are both right out of the Bi-Partisan stable. Taxpayers lose whoever wins, and nothing changes.
Neither get's my vote.
Spoken like a true conservative, colonel. Glad to see someone else (and conservative proletariat) here gets it.
Might I inquire what part of this lovely state you are from Wesley? I think your version of conservatism is rapidly shrinking and I can't say that makes me sad. Oberweis and Brady couldn't beat Rod, this isn't Georgia the pro guns anti abortion anti science doesn't play when its rapped into one bundle...
"I think your version of conservatism is rapidly shrinking and I can't say that makes me sad."
So, conservatism in your book is - raising taxes, never ending government spending, working with the Chicago mayor on tearing down homes to build an even larger airport, pay-to-play-politics-no-outsiders-welcome? That's an interesting brand of conservatism, one not shared in other parts of the country, nor by other Republicans in the rest of the country as well.
Well, you guys have made your beds. You wanted to prove you can do it without the conservatives. Here's your shot. Good luck. Don't expect any help from us. If you win, good for you, bad for Illinois. Same for Blago.
Another candidate, Sen. Steve Rauschenberger of Elgin, agreed with Mr. Oberweis that motivating conservatives “is going to be a challenge” for Ms. Topinka. “She needs their work, not just their vote,” said Mr. Rauschenberger
http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=19937
I'm sure comments like "morons" and "nuts" are helping.
The Illinois Policy Institute ranked Topinka worse on taxes then Rod.
On guns, the A rating your talking about was 4 years ago and interesting enough they didn't endorse her did they. And the only reason she gave for not supporting the assualt weapon ban was it was too "broad"
On limited Government she refuses to say were she will cut, she just makes promises to live in our means.
If you look at my words carefully you will see I said we do not TRUST her on these issues.
"Those issue are very important to us, but that is not all. Republicans believe in limited government, low taxes, gun rights, ect...
We don't trust Judy on any of these issues."
She is weak on taxes, pro-choice, anti-traditional marriage, and she refuses to say she will cut anything. I am sorry that sounds like the national democrat stance to me.
The only reason anyone is calling her republican is her claim to get the fiscal problems in order. She is not even sure how she is going to do this yet!
And yes I voted for Keyes, Jim Ryan, and I once voted for Topinka for treasurer. I have been loyal to my party, but for governor I draw the line with Topinka.
"So, conservatism in your book is - raising taxes, never ending government spending, working with the Chicago mayor on tearing down homes to build an even larger airport, pay-to-play-politics-no-outsiders-welcome? That's an interesting brand of conservatism, one not shared in other parts of the country, nor by other Republicans in the rest of the country as well."
Your such an accusation mill....thats like me saying your brand of conservatism is a bunch of cross burning hood wearing bigots who are living in the past and can't deal with the fact that they've been left behind....Of course that's NOT at all what I think but thats equivalent to your little representation.
1) raising taxes...I'm sorry if you prefer politicians pander to you and promise not to raise taxes, had ROD of been doing his job and moving funds around that shouldn't be touched we wouldn't be in this problem. But I suppose the pension fund will magicially refill itself. Is it unrealistic taxes might go up? no...but thats no gurantee they will.
2) never ending government spending...Judy and I quote said "were going to tighten the belt" that doesn't sound like never ending spending to me...Bush on the other hand seems to be expanding the budget worse than Clinton did.
3) working with the Chicago mayor on tearing down homes to build an even larger airport. So your telling me as a conservative your not infavor of expanding the airport that could provide jobs, increase tourism and commerce? You know being bipartisan sometimes isn't always bad. I agree I hate the way that Daley is going about it, but O'Hare needs to expand an airport in Peotone won't solve the problem.
4)pay-to-play-politics-no-outsiders-welcome. Just rhetoric, not saying I'm surprised you must be taking this stuff directly off of Oberweiss's website. JBT has all the contracts in the Treasurer's Office bid on, unlike Blago...Secondly, the inspector general in the Treasurer's Office is nothing if not persistant in making sure no nefarious actions are occuring. Unless you have specific evidence to the contrary.
sorry that anon post at 439 is mine...
Okay, Wesley, you’ve got me stumped. Let me get this straight: You’re a conservative, but you are hoping that the demonstrabily more liberal of the two major party candidates wins, just to spite the GOP? I don’t get it. If you want to cut off your own nose to spite your face, fine. But don’t cut the nose off everyone elses face by hoping Blago wins. Despite your unsubstantiated rhetoric, Blago is far more liberal on all issues than JBT. And as a conservative, I’d at least like to see – if nothing else – the LESS liberal of the two win – which would be JBT.
And as a conservative, I liked Fitz too. He was good for out state. And it was wrong for JBT to have treated him the way she did as Party Chair. But there are bigger fish to fry than revenge for intra-partisan spit-ball fights. Our state is in trouble, and while Judy may not be perfect I think she is substantially better than Rod.
A few more specifc rebukes:
”JBT has no record”
- yes, she does. As you pointed out, she was in the legislature for several terms. How many tax increases did she vote for while there? I could be wrong, but I’m pretty certain that the answer is none.
“You guys could have picked Brady or Oberweis if you cared about conservative votes.”
- well, we also care about the independent and moderate Dem cross-over votes that our nominee NEEDS to win. We live in a state where Dems outnumber Republicans by a wide margin. Liberals outnumber conservatives by an evern larger margin. We need to recognize that policial reality. It’s your all-or-nothing ideological extremism that will ensure we continue to have ultra-liberal, Chicago Democrats in the mansion for decades to come….not the GOP establishment’s supposed refusal to give conservatives a chance (I seem to remember that Jim Ryan was pretty conservative himself, and was endorsed by the same establishment that supports Judy).
And I don't think she called Oberweis, et al, nuts or morons because they were conservative.
Lets not forget that more people voted for Brady and Oberweis then Topinka, If we had only one conservative running Topinka would have lost.
And Reagen won in a liberal state, and Mass. governor is conservative as well. A conservative can win in this state if the message is good and focused. Keyes only got beat so bad because he was an outsider and the press gave Obama a free pass. The spent every moment they could attacking Keyes.
We win when go conservative, not when we go democrat light. And I am still not convienced that Topinka is better then Rod.
CP – I’m gonna stop you right there. I actually can’t believe it took THIS long for someone to say that. There is nothing to suggest that Brady and Oberweis’s combined totals represented an anti-Topinka mandate. My guess (I as well have no proof, but still….) is that many Brady voters would have pulled for Topinka if he were not in the race. Certainly, almost all of the endorsement by sitting office-holders (members of the GA, Congressman Weller) would have gone to her and NOT Oberweis.
Oh, and let’s not forget that California was much more conservative when Reagan ran for Governor in the 1960’s. And Romney specifically campaigned to maintain the pro-choice status of Massachusetts. Would you have still supported him if you lived there, given that? He also advocated raising the minimum wage. My goodness, even the liberal Judy Baar Topinka wouldn’t do that!
From the Tribune:
"Gov. Rod Blagojevich wasted no time this morning trying to draw clear distinctions between himself and Republican opponent Judy Baar Topinka, saying he will push for a $1-an-hour hike in the minimum wage if he's re-elected.
Fresh from a primary victory and standing on a Northwest Side street corner just blocks from the home where he grew up, Blagojevich challenged Topinka to support the proposal, which would increase the state's minimum wage to $7.50 an hour from $6.50.
"Now my opponent Judy Baar Topinka didn't lift a finger, ducked the issue of whether she was for or against a minimum wage increase," Blagojevich said. "She needs to take a position and she needs to be held responsible, as we all are, for the positions that we take."
- wait a minute Governor. According to some fine folks here on Illinoize, there are no difference between you and her. To hear them talk, you might think she'll come out in favor of a $2 hike, because she's even less fiscally conservative than you are!
GOP
Look at the polls and the questions Judy did get some who claimed conservatism but what was Brady's claim? The real conservative. Oberweis is a flip floper on the life issue. He really is a pro choice lib. The Taliban remember ? ever hear those words? You are incorrect if you believe that without Brady the night would have been over by 9:00Pm. Look at the numbers and where Brady took them from
Judy needs to make a credible statement that a Lt. Gov. Birkett will be more than a stand-in attending the annual Republican fundraising dinner in Cumberland County.
John you have that absolutely right. I think she will. These two have a very good relationship going.
You know, I think I have seen Judy at Cumberland County Lincoln Day dinners. She's probably one of the few statewide candidates who knows where Cumberland County is.
ISU and Grand Old Partisan:
There is not only a divide between "moderate" Republicans and "conservative" Republicans; there is a divide between Smart Republicans and Stupid Republicans. You two, my friends, are the Stupid Republicans.
Stupid Republicans are Republicans who believe that by being Democrats Lite, Republicans become the governing party. You two must obviously come from Bob Michel's old district, because he led the same way... look where it got us.
Smart Republicans, like Reagan and Gingrich, know that there is a winning conservative paradigm that attracts the majority of votes.
Based on your defenses of Judy, Judy's campaign is a continuation of Stupid Republicanism. Under your scenarios, if Judy were Governor, she would raise taxes to "balance the budget". Thus we would have a repeat of Dick Ogilvie, wherein the Republican Party would be punished by the voters and relegated to second fiddle permanently. Her championing of parental-notice is a fig leaf. Our Democratic GA would never let the same out of committee. There are other concrete pro-life initiatives that Judy could take as Governor, but she hasn't said boo about any of them. Indeed, she's in favor of Plan B. So pro-tax Judy will cripple the party, and the social conservatives will remain p****d off. What great "party building". Judy as Governor would not "save" us from four more years of Democratic mismanagement; it would ruin the Republican Party for decades. Let Blago stay governor and force the Demos to make the tough decisions. We will all survive and let's then come back in 2010.
I understand your brand of right wing conservatism is on the delcine in our state and I'd be upset too...but 1950's racism and hypocrisy doesn't appeal to us "stupid" republicans...When will you supposedly "smart" republicans get it through your head that this isn't Georgia your fire and brimestone act doesn't play with most Illinoisians and the fact that its your way or no way is rather stupid, but what do i know!
First, JBT never said she was going to raise taxes, but lets face it either programs must be cut or taxes raised to take care of the budget problem or are you ok with Rod's plan to borrow money that shouldn't be touched....
The fact that you even mentioned Plan B is riddiclous...heres a newsflash...if you have kids they are probably having sex and I bet if your little susie got pregnant you'd be the first one in line demanding those pills...I think its wrong to try and impose your morality on people who do not believe the same thing as you, who are you to say what's right and wrong, because that's what your God says...I'm pretty sure he also says not to judge and love one another or does that only count with people who believe the same thing as you do...You should be ashamed how you act as Christians with that hatred in your heart, that's certainly not what Jesus would do or do you forget that he was the one who was always standing up for those who were persecuted and the downtrodden.
Our party should not be the morality police or the type that excludes people because they are different...Diversity CAN be a good thing, after all there is nothing wrong with have a voting base that encorporates multiple ideas...If you havent noticed the Republican party is already second fiddle in IL or are do all those Democrats holding office statewide not count...
Conservative Republicans need to wake up and realize what century it is..I am not at all saying you need to abandon your views after all its what you believe even if I don't agree. But you have to get used to the fact that theres an ever growing number of Republicans who don't see everything the way you do and being hostile to the next generation will only get your views pushed to the backround once we come of age and become more prominent in the party. We have a chance to make history in Illinois by electing our first women governor and shes a Republican...so JBT is socially moderate...she's done well with the state's investment money and regardless what you say or paint her as she is not Rod lite...That's rhetoric and that's something the Dems do let's leave that to them and out of our party...
There is nothing "stupid" about recognizing that Illinois is NOT the rest of the country. Yes, Reagan and Gingrich led conservative movements that found political success...NATIONALLY. That is because the nation as a whole is far more conservative than Illinois as a state. To ignore that fact is stupid, my friend.
Please, I'd like hear about whether or not you would have voted for Romney - who you cite as an example of a conservative being able to win in a blue state - despite his promise NOT to chance the pro-choice status of the state, and endorsing a rise in the minimum wage.
If you are going to cite examples, you should really try and either (a) defend them when they are challenged, or (b) conceded that they are inaccurate and replace them with new examples. Because right now, you are left with no valid examples of a true, all-issue conservative wining in a blue STATE.
Topinka and Birkett are the ones who left the Party. JBT left long ago, and Birkett just recently for his 30 pieces of silver, his price of betrayal.
We proud Republicans who voted for Oberweis, the only good GOP candidate who could have won, will still be around after JBT and Birkett are disgraced this year.
Oberweis could not have beaten Blagojevich. Every poll showed that. Regardless of how well he consolidated the conservative vote, he had NO chance of winning independants or cross-over Dems. Every poll showed that. The GOP nominee cannot win without independants and cross-over dems. Everyone knows that. Every poll showed that Oberweis would have been the best thing that ever happened to Rod Blagojevich.
I agree that conservative Republicans in Illinois need a hero, but we don't need a martyr.
Turning the party over to ideologically rigid, burn-the-village-in-order-to-save-it right-wingers would ensure one party rule in this state for decades to come. Now that we have a nominee that can win independants and crossovers, it is up to you to stop grinding the axe and help Judy prevent the capitol from being permanently moved to LaSalle Street.
I don't want critically ill machine bosses or Irish dynasties governing Illinois. But if that doesn't bother you, go ahead and stay home. Judy and Jim may not win, but we'll all lose.
Any voter who thinks JBT is a bad choise, TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT THE ALTERNATIVE. Blagoofavich won't live in Springfield where he should be, Instead he goes out to DuPage county airport each day, boards the state owned airplane, flys to Springfield, flys home for lunch with his croonys, and flys back to Springfield for the short afternoon, and flys home at night. After doing this for approxmitly eight months he decieds the eight passenger state owned airplane is not big enought to impress his guests so he orders a twenty passenger plane costing several hundred thousand dollars. Now the flight crew has to go back to school to get qualified as do the mechanics. Add in the cost of spare parts and new equipment for several thousand more dollars. Now for the real kicker, ANY JET AIRCRAFT must get up to the higher altitudes to be even a litlle bit fuel efficent. THERE IS NOT ENOUGH DISTANCE BETWEEN DUPAGE COUNTY AIRPORT AND sPRINGFIELD AIRPORT TO GET UP TO ANY OF THE HIGHER ALTITUDES TO SAVE FUEL. WITH HIS GIVE AWAY POLICIES (AT TAX PAYERS EXPENCE) HE IS GOING TO BANKRUP THE STATE OF ILLINOIS AND ALL THE TAX PAYERS. Wakeup people before you vote to give away the state of Illinois.
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