Saturday, March 17, 2007

State of ILGOP

IlliniPundit, Illinois Review, ArchPundit have all commented on this Aaron Chambers article which does it's best to account for the current state of IL-GOP and affirms that our party is essentially non-existent in terms of power.

The article spends most of it's time digging into the issues of corruption and the so called "George Ryan factor", which the article maintains singularly mitigates the GOP's power in the state. I tend to agree that corruption seriously undermines the public perception of the party. What I won't agree with is this idea that is best expressed Illini Pundit, that there is a double standard on corruption between Republicans and Democrats.


I've gotten into some vociferous arguments with some Democratic friends because I somewhat agree with Rep. Cross. I think, especially in Chicago, there's a tolerance level amongst rank-and-file Democrats for corruption by Democratic officials, because it's such a tradition: Daley, Daley, Rosty, Blago, etc.

On the other hand, when a prominent Republican is corrupt, Republicans either leave the Party in shame (and in droves, as happened after George Ryan's conviction) or they try to eliminate the corruption (as many are trying to do with Kjellander). Of course, Ryan was convicted, and neither Blago nor Daley have been charged, but Ryan's popularity plummeted as soon as the corruption became widely known. Blago and Daley were just re-elected overwhelmingly.


My belief that comparing Blago and Ryan on the corruption scale (at this point at least), is essentially akin to comparing O.J. Simpson to John Wayne Gacy. One was maybe caught but narrowly escaped. The other was definitely caught with a lot of dead bodies in his basement.

I don't believe that there is any particular bias - be it in the general public, in the media, or internally within the GOP voters - that holds Republicans to higher liability or standard when a conservative turns out to be crooked. To the contrary, I'm certain that the reason why the Ryan Factor has been such a malignant stain has been our absolute inability to mount a coherent defense separating the party from Ryan.

This is probably best attributed to some of the factionalism that Chambers describes, as we're yet to find a central message or vision that goes party wide, something that we desperately need to find our way back into power. Meanwhile, while the party is either busy fumbling around looking for this message (or maybe just sticking a torpedo to everyone else's) GOP voters have become less enthusiastic while centrist and moderate folks have been lulled into a trance to punch [D] when they get to the polls, probably best exhibited in the last gubernatorial race in which Topinka failed to energize any vote and was beaten essentially by folks who were probably just punching Dem's down the line anyhow.

The best wisdom in the whole piece comes from Jim Edgar:

Edgar adds that local organizations, from county chairmen to precinct committeemen, are the true machinery of a statewide campaign. "The state party can be helpful, but it's not the 800-pound gorilla," he says. "The 800-pound gorilla in this is still the local party organizations."


I'd go one step further to say that we're not just sickly and weak on local party organizations but even our statewide grass roots organizations who could potentially help shift power back in our favor come up drastically short in both form and function with very little quality control between local chapters. If we had local fronts and grass roots movements, it would be a simple task to remove the Ryan factor. Even at times, efforts are duplicated by different factions within ILGOP. Take for example, we have an Illinois Young Republican organization and a Republican Young Professionals ::cough cough:: Roeser front ::cough cough:: organization.

Now, don't me wrong. I'm not saying that YR organizations are the perfect tool for political organizations, but it's certainly a start towards some real deal activism that doesn't involve getting together wearing Nixon tshirts and sipping on lite beer at Nick's Uptown. Now, if that's the case, that we have motivated younger conservatives with plenty of political energy, why have two organizations serving the exact same function and usurping each other's human resources?

A better question is, why don't these organizations have more significant web presence to grab the interest of other like minded people? Why is it I have to search them out instead of them taking advantage of the great audience of the blogosphere and community message boards to try to establish something that's forward moving.

I could fill a thousand blog posts with the grabasstic nature of Illinois GOP related web sites, but that doesn't make the point any clearer. IL-GOP by virtue of not having a clear working relationship with it's local organizations and grass roots efforts is permanently disconnected from Illinois voters and it shall remain tarnished by George Ryan - after all he is the last GOP flavor in most people's mouths. Until that connection is made again you might as well say there is no Illinois GOP. We can be assured that's what the Democrats think.

As usual, xposted at my joint.

29 comments:

steve schnorf 2:16 PM  

First, let me say I worked in the administrations of 6 Governors. Anyone who knows me knows I worked 18 years for Jim Edgar, and I couldn't be more proud of him and his accomplishments.

But I certainly don't have any shame or regrets over the 4 years I worked for George Ryan. I found Governor Ryan truthful, straightforward, honest, kind and thoughtfull, and one of the very most decent people I have ever known, anytime, anywhere.

I fervently believe that his conviction will be overturned. Anyone who knows George Ryan knows he is a giver, not a taker.

Having said that, let me bring up one of my favorite themes, the loose and careless way people on these sites toss around words like "crime" and "corrupt". So tell me; exactly what corruption is Kjellander charged with, or accused of?

JBP 2:55 PM  

Ryan was convicted of being a gruff man, who unfortunately was Secretary of State when a bad accident occurred. Never mind that there are bad accidents everyday that also have tenuous links to the entire Driver's Licensing program, the press decided and the Fed's decided that someone must be convicted for this, and that was George Ryan.

Comparing this to the parade of indictements, bribery-based boards, and Patti Blago's real-estate prowess, makes Ryan look like a pillar of virtue.

JBP

Dan L 3:03 PM  

The difference: The public widely recognizes Ryan as being corrupt. You cannot say the same for Blago.

At this point in time, Ryan could have his conviction over turned and it wouldn't do a damn bit of good for us, in terms of what goes through the back of people's heads when they go vote.

Now, if we had a more organized way of getting information out, spinning things, and spitting out talking point we would be in a much better place.

And if you don't think that the public perception of corruption is what's causing some of our problems, than what is it?

And Steve, I don't understand what the Kjellander corruption meme keeps popping up either. I personally don't get into that particular one. The quote where he's mentioned is from IP.

I do judge people based on their enemies, and in this case I might think Kjellander is an ok guy just based on that.

Anonymous,  5:28 PM  

I think that Blago will get indicted and the democrats will have a tougher time because the corruption will be public. However, I think the problem with the Illinois Republican party is the right wing extremists who prefer to eat their own rather than work to build the party. There is no compromise and they actually thought bringing in Alan Keyes was a good idea. Forget the Ryan factor. These boys (and they are male, part of the rules) would rather see a democrat in office than a moderate Republican. So, that is what we have.

Anonymous,  6:16 PM  

Corruption in Illinois is not just Democrat. I've seen corruption in the Republican suburbs too but the U.S. Attorney gets better headlines in Chicago. If he ever spent some time in the suburban communities, checking out municipal, county and forest preserve contracts, he'd find a very intricate web of "friends" who seem to be in the right place at the right time. The only difference is that the corruption is very crass in the big city. Out here in the suburbs, it is more subtle Chamber of Commerce style corruption. It may not be as sexy as in Chicago, but it is still corruption.

Anonymous,  7:12 PM  

Unfortunatly I can't get the 45 seconds of my life back that I spent reading this mishmash.

Anonymous,  10:04 PM  

It is not the corruption in the Republican Party that has killed it in this state. Both parties have their corruption and the public is smart enough to see that. Look at the candidates the Republicans have run. Doesn't anyone vet them? For Edgar to say the local organizations and precinct captains are the backbone of the party is to ignore the fact that people who never brought water to the elepant are slated statewide. It has become a rich mans toy. WHERE IS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WHEN THE PERSON WHO HEADS GOV. ROD'S TRANISTION TEAM IS JIM THOMPSON? If that wasn't enought to kill off the grass roots Republicans what is? It all comes down to which Law Firm and which construction company, Bond company feeds at the public trough

Anonymous,  8:15 AM  

Now thats some funny shit...I don't care who you are...

Extreme Wisdom 8:54 AM  

Steve Schnorf asked the $106 billion question, and then alluded to the wrong answer.

Having said that, let me bring up one of my favorite themes, the loose and careless way people on these sites toss around words like "crime" and "corrupt".

I take the position that "corruption" is rampant in Illinois, and goes way beyond "criminal" activity.

What a cadre of Superintendents are doing with the IEC money laundering scheme is corrupt. (and any board who contracted with them on a "no bid" basis broke the school code, and should be prosecuted)

"End-of-Career" bonuses and the intentional gaming of pension payments is corrupt.

Placing your sons and daughters in your elected office as you move up is corrupt.

Loading up your "allotment of jobs" with cronies and relatives is corrupt. Having "an allotment of jobs" alone is as close to corrupt as you can get with out being corrupt.

This list could go on for hours if one really went into details about Illinois Government.

The kicker is that seasoned players like Mr. Schnorf are so steeped in this "corruption" that they don't even see it for what it is - an hence defend it, and its practioners.

Count me as one of those who believes things can't go on like this forever. Sure, we all know that these things come part and parcel with government. But they can go too far.

This nation is one dramatic economic downturn from a full-scale financial conflagration.

A quick look at San Diego and Texas expose the storm clouds on the horizon.

Just last Friday, the Tribune was reporting on the precarious financial condition of the CTA and RTA pension systems.

[BTW - the Trib story showcases the same issue that confronts schools. You can't fund new stations when you are shoveling money into the pension maw. Just like you can't fund children when you are rewarding third-class bureaucrat]
___

So yeah, Steve, you asked the right question but gave the wrong answer. Anyone who thinks a few years on the Gov. payroll should be reward them with a fat pension(s) is "corrupt," as is anyone who takes an $800,000 commision on a $10 billion re-financing scheme.

Not criminal, mind you. Just Corrupt. And Dan is 100% correct. It has metastized deeply in both parties. It has metasized so deeply that putatively decent people don't even see it as a problem.

Extreme Wisdom 9:12 AM  

Edgar's comments that "local organizations" are "key players" comes pretty close to missing the point entirely. (I personally wish Edgar had run so Blago could have dropped a $20,000,000 MSI bomb on the guy - the Edgar worship in Rep. circles is unseemly)

As some one above commented on the quality of candidates, some one else needs to comment on the quality of ideas and policy.

The current Republican mantra is "they suck worse than we do."

How inspiring. Try running on a platform or promoting an alternative set of policies. The mistake hacks like Edgar and Thompson make is that they think you can maintain a "party of ideas" on a "ward boss" mentality.

Republican Grass Roots are fueled by something they "believe in." If you try to build the party on the patronage model of the Democrats, you will always be outbid. If you get lucky and win a few, your base will eventually abandon you as you become increasely statist (as all partronage based systems must).

Dan L 9:59 AM  

I think that what really needs to happen is an honest public accounting by the GOP. We need to narrow it down to 3 specific issues that cause disarray within the party. If it requires a complete caucus of GOP faithful to do so, so be it.

The problem though lies in the fact that _we_ are the GOP be faithful, and we're practically demanding some sort of honest statement from the party about where we're at - and we don't seem to be getting any recognition that we see that we are, in current form, a permanent minority party.

Anonymous,  10:34 AM  

The Republican party can be saved through former ILGOP employee and activist Ronald Kroell. He would have a very (although not exactly the same)perspective as DanL. He could reach out to groups not previously brought in by the GOP. He had run ins with the now discredited Lee Daniels.

Dan L 10:47 AM  

Do you think he could potentially find a way to negotiate some of the more militant factions in ILGOP?

Or do you think he could just generate enough steam to make the strident types irrelevant?

Anonymous,  10:56 AM  

RYP isn't a real organization. It's one guy blasting out emails to bash other Republicans. He's a bitter menace.

Anonymous,  11:16 AM  

Dude, chill on the apostrophes. Geez.

Anonymous,  11:18 AM  

Edgar is dead wrong. The party chairmen and state central committeemen are only concerned about jobs and their own glory. GOP county chairmen backed JBT so much last year not because they were concerned about Republican ideals but because they wanted to put their local precinct guys in prison jobs or on IDOT construction projects. I would bet that most GOP county people couldn't even defend a Republican standpoint or argue why Blago's policies are no good for the state and their area. Some chairmen actually care about the party and each candidate but most are in the back pocket of a bigger, more influential figure or a local powerhouse, such as a Congressman or state senator. If enough of the old guard that had it good under Thompson and Edgar start stepping down and are replaced by young, hungry party activists, we will be in a much better position.

Anonymous,  11:31 AM  

@Zap: I figured. The organization is clearly a front for the club. We know that, average party member doesn't.

I think team sleep has a point. Maybe Thompson and Edgar are part of the problem as well. I haven't made up my mind on that just yet, but it's a definite possibility.

If, in fact, we're dealing with a massive factionalism problem, our only hope would be not to save one faction and let them dominate - but to purge them all and see what we've got for rebuilding.

Anonymous,  4:18 PM  

To focus on George Ryan as being the whole problem with the Republicans in this state is to point to the tip of the berg. It was Ryan and just about everyone associated with him. What was almost as tawdry as his downfall is the affect he had on the reputation of Jim Thompson who is still struggling to try to get him off for the "mickey mouse" stuff that Ryan got into.

But then one watches the Jack Ryan fiasco and sees the future also looks bleak.

The party needs to work hard to become more centrist and better run from the top to the bottom. The faster George Ryan's name and reputation leave, the better.

And I am still waiting for the dime to drop and Tony Rezko to cut a deal that may bring Blago down...

Anonymous,  9:11 PM  

That still some funny shit...

Levois 9:16 PM  

I'm trying to figure out what happened to the website for the Chicago GOP's website. Once upon it was good though rarely updated today it is just a simple geocities webpage with a stick figure saying hello. I see that there's some difficulty in the Cook County GOP organization with the 42nd ward organization.

I don't know if Republicans need to be more centrist or conservation but if they keep eating each other alive. Like they seemed to do with Jack Ryan, I think there are problems ahead.

steve schnorf 9:41 PM  

Extreme, so since I don't agree with you, I'm either blinded or in denial. The last time I checked Edgar's popularity ratings among voters, it was at about 70%. I guess almost 3/4 of the voters in the state are blind or in denial, and are fortunate that you can see for them. Or, could it be you're such an idealogue that it's you who doesn't see?

Anonymous,  10:59 PM  

I don't understand what some people's obsession with Jim Edgar is.

I mean, I disagreed with the guy on important issues like booze, abortion, alcohol, drinking, liquor, spirits, libation, fire-water, etc. The important stuff.

But talk to legislators in the know, and they say he was the last guy to have an honest set of state books. I guess he could be trusted on that, even if he was wrong on what I thought were the important issues of the day.

But I'm with Schnorf. I talk to Repub rank and file and detect no revulsion at Edgar. In fact, if anything, there is a longing out there.

The only folks I find irate at Edgar are some "socon" bloggers, and the bitter Jack Roeser, who as everyone knows lost a primary to Edgar. Incensed that Edgar was successful, Jack will take his dishonest nastiness to his grave.

Extreme Wisdom 12:15 AM  

Steve,

One need not be "blind or in denial" to disagree with me. I've said no such thing about you. Let's just chalk it up to differing worldviews.

I'm on the outside looking in, and you are an insider who was present at the creation of this mess.

Edgar's approval ratings have nothing to do with anything. Had he run against Blago, I'd have probably voted for him, and out of the last four governors, he might have been the best of the lot. That said, one isn't saying much.

As for being an ideologue, I guess I'm as proud of the label as you are of working with George Ryan. Chalk it up to differing worldviews again.

In closing, I notice that you seem to resort to attacks on my "ideology" or my lack of "poll numbers." I've not heard a cogent argument countering any of the points I've made.

Illinois is bankrupt, the Democrat Party is a lock on statewide races for the duration, and the Republicans are neutered, devoid of ideas, and absent any seasoned candidates or a 'farm team.'

If you take pride in that work, it leaves open the question of what your goal was.

Anonymous,  8:29 AM  

As someone who is the head of a local YR club, I can tell you what would help the YR clubs be more active... good candidates!! I can't tell you how many times I had peoeple tell me during the last election that they believed in the cause, but just weren't that excited about any of the candidates we offered, and therefore, were attending to their regular lives more often.

When we get some inspiring candidates and link them with inspiring ideas, instead of being the "Vote for me, I'm Republican" party, we'll have healthy and active local organizations.

Dan L 9:13 AM  

How about Aaron Schock?


heh

Anonymous,  10:31 PM  

Aaron Schock has a great future. He is articulate, attractive, intelligent, cross over appeal.
Really an amazing story.

Anonymous,  9:03 AM  

I worked personally with Ronald Kroell on a very close basis. He is the kind of guy you want with you in a foxhole; someone who will fight tireless for what is right. He had the respect and esteem of his colleagues at the ILGOP during his tenure there and would be a welcome bridge to the more gilded age of when the ILGOP could accomplish something. He is not just a "pretty face," though that does not hurt either. He has a probing mind and would inspire those around him. I watched 300 and was reminded of the sort of leader Ronald *could* be.

pathickey 10:31 AM  

Dan and all you brethren of loyal opposition, take a good look at Mr. Pat Guest's current blogsite.

Pat and I disagreed about the efficacy of a John Somerville aldermanboat ( I'd use -ship but that would give that Yutz Somerville too much credit)and Pat has recently changed to your folks' church.

His website is intelligent and signals some vitality for the Illinois GOP. This is the kind of guy you guys want in your camp!

http://www.19thwardblog.com.

Anonymous,  2:13 PM  

Someone mentioned conservatives who would rather see a Democrat elected, and there are some like Jack Roeser. Conservative Republicans, however, by and large, supported moderate Republicans (Thompson and Edgar) for twenty two years in general elections. The minute that conservatives won primaries (Al Salvi and Peter Fitzgerald) moderate Republicans, with some notable exceptions, supported Democrats. They chose to take their ball and go home when they couldn't have their way every time. Those who work in the precincts know this is true.

Finally, not to contradict Gov. Edgar, but there are very few GOP local organizations that are worth anything, and many can't even carry the candidates they endorse in a primary.

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