For once, the free market scares me.
I was going to blog about the release of ISAT test scores and why the results are a little bit shifty, but I was really waiting for a larger fall out. There are some issues of different coverage and there's plenty of connect-the-dots potential if one were interested in linking perhaps inflated test scores with a 10 billion dollar budget injection, but for the most part I'm not expecting additional fall out.
When people hear that the schools are doing ok they don't feel compelled to look deeper. They'd rather here that the results are good, that everything is fine, and go back to sleep until something happens. I fully expect it.
On the other hand, Chicago Catholic Schools posted impressive test scores without the cloud of suspicion - which I think lends a little credence to the notion that private schools can be tuned to get the job better and that perhaps a school voucher program would result in a market that makes public education better.
Of course, that idea is predicated on Catholic schools being interested in becoming competition for public schools, a notion which is flat out rejected by the archdiocese superintendent, Nicholas Wolsonovich.
"The only reason we operate schools is to pass on our faith, so it's a religious mission," Wolsonovich said. "This test is not an evaluation of the schools. We feel confident [our students] are getting a good education in every one of our schools."
In a perfect world, the Catholic Schools would be ready to take up the job to seriously compete with public schools if a school voucher program were to get going. In this perfect world, they would have the ability to expand as far as the market required and to have as many seats as they needed. But, it's not perfect. Inner city Catholic schools would be able to fill some otherwise empty seats, but ultimately they don't have the ability to provide for a mass exodus of public school students, nor are they of the current size to be the sort of wake up call to public schools that I would like to see.
Should a real school voucher program get legs, the Catholic schools would not be able to fill the vacuum for students looking for a way out of failing public schools. The result I see: private for profit institutions taking hold which are equally as bad for the children as the current public school model.
It's not exactly a stretch of the imagination. Private for profit education providers have sprung up as colleges with coming of age of federal financial aid. Hoffman Estates based Career Education Corporation and Oak Brook based DeVry are two of the larger ones, the former being a classic example of the kind of Big Ed I don't want anywhere near my kids.
CECO has made an industry of praying off the under/unemployed day time TV crowd. Using high pressured sales pitches, they've managed to sell low quality educations to a lot of folks who don't otherwise know any better. Their 'brick and mortar' institutions, while filling a market need, have been exposed time and time again as being little more than degree mills with very little academic value. One of their larger online institutions (which has a brick and mortar in Georgia) has had their accreditation stuck in probation for the last 2 years.
Allowing for profit institutions into the game of primary and secondary education is a little bit like inviting a fox into the hen house. They'll dazzle parents with inflated college placement results (perhaps by feeding students right into their very own post secondary institutions), show them well manicured campuses with mega sized computer labs and huge resources, and drop in phrases about 'real world curriculum' and 'experienced accomplished teachers', only for the parents to find out in order to get their kid in this school it will take the educational voucher and something resembling a student loan.
It does not take much to convince parents to sign away chunks of change if their kids can do better than they did.
The problem with free market solutions to education is that the only plausible result are these hucksters taking up residence in the system. Frankly, I don't even want to tempt them to show up. The best option we have is reform of what we already have.
21 comments:
There are a number of other good established school "systems" other than the obvious largest Catholic one.
There is a fear of for profit fly by nights and other problems. But the benefits are worth the risk.
The Lutherans (especially Missouri Synod) have a decent school system and they have a couple of schools of note like St. Andrews Lutheran in Park Ridge which has an excellent academic reputation, Luther North High School which is good, and even inner city missions like Grace Lutheran in Little Village.
The Dutch Reformed (mostly Dutch but not only and mostly Calvisnist leaning but not only) have Timothy Christian which is an excellent school but also a school in Englewood and outreach in the inner city and scholarships for kids who come all the way out there.
Anshe Emet Jewish Day School is an excellent school (now I think the Bernard Zell named after Billionaire Sam Zell's dad) with scholarships, and non Jewish students. Rahm Emmanuel sends his kids there if I am not mistaken.
There is a network of Orthodox, Hassidic, specifically Chabad (Lubavitcher) schools that are good that have produced many doctors, lawyers, and rabbis.
They have done a lot in computers and internet and have some great websites like
inner.org
chabad.org
askmoses.com
kabbalahonline.org
meaningfullife.com
There are private Catholic schools, or Catholic related and/or inspired schools that are independent or run by religious orders (not connected to the Archdiocese), many of these serve urban inner city environments.
Before the relatively recent advent of the super magnet gifted mega money public schools (and even still outranking them)--the top 5 High Schools in the state (at least measured by average ACT scores) were ALL private
1. University of Chicago Lab School
2. Benet Academy in Lisle (which is real impressive as it is a larger school, co-ed, with a relatively low tuition)
3. Northridge Prep
4. Willows Academy
(Northridge Prep is 33% Hispanic mostly Mexican and over half the students are on scholarship or some type of financial aid, all kids take AP classes)
5. St. Ignatius Jesuit College Prep
NUMBER 6 WAS NEW TRIER
Whitney Young wasn't in the top ten.
With the advent of North Side Prep, and to a lesser extent Walter Payton (although there are some other good and improving magnet and neighborhood schools like Kenwood, Lane, Jones--most neighborhood schools are still mediocre to poor)
An unidentified Chicago alderman was in the media stating they could not get their child into North Side Prep and the second choice was Loyola Academy. Loyola Academy even 10 years ago would of been a first choice school.
In terms of the inner city, there a number of good Catholic (and other schools) that serve low income, minority children very well and with not a lot of resources and no to little (there is a $500 tax credit at the state level and some schools help parents take advantage of transportation or book reimbursment and some schools get computers from Federal programs even though private or religious)
Cristo Rey, the relatively new Jesuit High School that is bilingual in Pilsen and has a European work/study model.
Lots of corporate funding.
Good Jesuit network.
San Miguel in the Back of the Yards run by the Christian Brothers--and alternative High School that serves average to even below average kids and is doing an excellent job.
Senator Meeks has his school associated with the House of Hope (or schools both grade and High)
Leo--the school of one of the internet bloggers here. Very impressive "white" alumni helping out, teaching, raising money, mentoring.
Hales Franscican--most students apparently are not only African American but many on federal assistance and from single family homes yet high college rates.
Michael Jordan a donor here.
Providence St. Mel, independent Catholic school and alma mater of more than one elected official in the African American community. Oprah Winfrey has given some money but no government assistance.
Unfortunately, there are many more stories of closed down schools like the old St. Martin de Porres/ Mendel High School that seemed to have given a good quality education, and schools almost closed down on the North Side for girls, or Good Council which shut down, or the many parochial schools (mostly run by the Archdiocese but also some smaller Christian and specifically Lutheran) that struggle because of lack of money like St. Anne's High School in Pilsen, numerous schools in the African American community, Providence of God, Our Lady of Tepeyac, St. Adalbert, St. Michaels, St. Stephens--all decent schools, LOW COST, providinig BASICS and a SAFER environment.
These students that left the closed down schools went to the PUBLIC SCHOOLS and increased cost(s) and caused MORE OVERCROWDING.
The closing down of Catholic schools and the lack of a voucher/scholarship/choice/larger tax credit causes MORE MONEY PROBLEMS FOR PUBLIC SCHOOLS and less good options for parents AND MORE KIDS NOT GETTING A GOOD EDUCATION.
The two tier system is WITHOUT THE VOUCHER. The voucher or non governmental school public scholarship is the GREAT EQUALIZER as now ONLY THE RICH CAN GO TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS. The new schools the Archdiocese are creating are primarily WHITE, and UPPER MIDDLE CLASS like in Orland Park and St. Francis Xavier Warde (which caused a close down for Cathedral High School serving inner city, diverse and low income students including many African Americans, Hispanics, and even at that time orphaned Commissioner Tony Peraica an immigrant from Croatia).
Parents PAY TAXES that would normally go to education and also PAY TUITION--which is double taxation. While one may say that is there choice--it seems that for many if they are not lucky enough to go to Edison Gifted, or Edgebrook or a Math and Science (if they are gifted enough to pass the test or score high enough or have political connections to get in) that the local public school is not a good option even now with improvements and better physical facilities. Schools like Farragut, Crane, Hubbard, Bogan and others--that do have good teachers at least some, some good students and good programs--are not always safe, do not have good matriculation rates even for High School let alone college (Hispanics still have over 50% drop outs), racial problems, fights that are almost like mob actions, low reading scores, lack of basic skills etc.
There is an issue(s) of Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Association insofar as that religious parents may not want to choose the Public school(s) (or government run school monopolies) not only for safety or quality of education but also for values issues of philosophical questions on God and existence to human sexuality--and they should have a right without being financially penalized to exercise those choices (with some limits) to do so. Can only rich people than practice their religion or go to private schools? Schools also indoctrinate (not in a bad way necessarily) but they impart values--that is part of the Dewey/Mann/U of C public (governmental) school system. Read the qoutes on the Ogden school in the Gold Coast (a school that is supposed to be pretty good)
The private schools that a small voucher would not affect are the playgrounds of the rich that have by policy excluded Catholics, African Americans, and not thought about others as no one applied (that do not need government funding because of the Billionaire endowments)--it is the Blue Collar neighborhood Catholic or even upper Middle Class Lutheran, or mission schools to Minority (the Catholic Schools in African American communities usually do not have many Catholics) that are in danger of closing--it is
NOT the
Roycemores
or Francis Parkers (with the 20 million dollar donation from the Pritzker family with the acronym of their names)
or even U of C Lab with the super gifted children of professors of U of C
BUT the smaller schools, or the middle class or poor that will close down without school choice.
Also, don't forget about the MONTESSORI schools, or even the more left leaning WALDORF--or other creative schooling options that have produced a lot of good students and educational opportunities that don't fit the cookie cutter/testing governmental "Public" approach.
The other good Catholic (and other) schools that provide good education, some still have SINGLE SEX (which studies indicate is better for students and especially for girls and also for African American males), and have MISSION and/or VALUES or in the Catholic Schools a sense of intellectual heritage or dare to teach LATIN or have a HUMANITIES AND LITERATURE because of history and philosophy which helps thinking and has produced great writers and lawyers etc.)
Lots of good High Schools besides the Opus Dei Northridge Prep or High Scoring Benet in Lisle like
Marist
Mount Carmel
Loyola Academy
Luther South
other independent Christian schools
Mennonite Schools
Fenwick
St. Viadors
Brother Rice
DeLaSalle
Maria
Lourdes
(Maria and Lourdes are heavily Hispanic)
Many of these Schools are in the suburbs but many have big Chicago populations, many have big scholarship programs, most are far more diverse in terms of income, race, and certainly geography than the other best public schools like New Trier, Naperville, Hinsdale, Highland Park, Libertyville--the best super expensive public schools are not diverse at all, cost a ton of money, and are for the luck of geography or wealthy (albeit smart and/or hardworking) parents. This is not fair nor equal education. Most other suburbs have mediocre schools (at least according to college matriculation, acceptance, and test scores).
The new public (Chicago) schools serving a mostly white and affluent (with a strong Asian and Jewish presence)(and justified to the extent most tested in and are smarter than other students and/or worked harder) is like a private school(s) paid with public dollars. There are justifications for this (we want to keep smart kids and families in Chicago). But it is a SEPARATE system and one that costs a LOT OF MONEY and is not equal to other schools like Benito Juarez or Crane or DuSable.
The Muslims have a good performing school in Morton Grove (with many Chicago students) producing not Madrassah crazies but doctors, engineers and businessmen. The "Black Muslim" community also has schools. All exceeding academic averages, all relatively safe--even if not in keeping with our same religion or exact cultural approach. But that is what is great about America. These parents should not have access to some dollars to help their kids???
Do not forget also about some good but small Seventh Day Adventist schools, or the Home Schoolers (whose kids go to Harvard) that are not only religious "righ wingers" but also hippies and liberals because they want their kids to think out of the box.
Choice, diversity, options, value based education is GOOD and to give tax breaks to parents of THEIR MONEY (it is not public or government it is their money) is GOOD.
While there was 20 million alone initial investment of North Side Prep yet before Vallas there were operating engineers who did no work, schools without toilet paper, AND STILL schools without (at the High School level) science labs, swimming pools etc.
It is not a question of money but of money well spent and also allocation of that money.
Politicians talk about the PUBLIC SCHOOLS but don't talk about KIDS, and the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Illinois kids in other (mostly Catholic) schools and systems.
They talk about more money in "Public" Education but didn't want to give a $500 tax break or let a private school student share a bus or get some money. THIS IS CALLED DISCRIMINATION. There is historically an anti-Catholic bias (to long to go into here) and more recently a more radical secular interpretation by historical and philosophical admission is for secular indocrtination and assimilation. The "Public" school system has NEVER been good for immigrants and lower income peoples. The Catholic schools have done a BETTER JOB (not perfect but on average) at educating minorities (most African American politicians in Chicago are Catholic educated as one example) and immigrants (some public schools at certain historical periods were synonymous with ethnic discrimination and Protestantism) and lower income students. Again, many good public schools, public school success stories, many great Public school teachers and students--BUT it is a BIG government system that does not focus all the time on kids or education.
Let PARENTS CHOOSE, let money flow to KIDS and not to institutions and buildings. Let's stop being hypocritical and lying about reality and history. Please recognize the great diversity in education (Phonics based reading versus whole word/Bilingual versus immersion, vocational training, different techniques, traditional Catholic uniforms and rote memorization, Monterssori and Waldorf methods) and not try to cookie cutter and make education a factory (recognizing differences, different ways to learn, different values) and not put all the money into only the best schools for the best students and than claim "Public" education is improving. Recognize and respect the great Catholic schools, and the smaller Lutheran, Dutch Reformed, Jewish (Conservative and Orthodox), Jesuit, Opus Dei, Christian Brothers, different Sisters, Muslim, Black Muslim, Montessori, Fransciscan etc etc.
Smaller classes, larger classes, more freedom, more discipline.
LET PARENTS DECIDE!!!
KEEP GOOD SCHOOLS OPEN REGARDLESS OF PARENTAL INCOME!!!!
PRIVATE SCHOOLS NOT JUST FOR THE RICH!!!!
"The only reason we operate schools is to pass on our faith, so it's a religious mission," Wolsonovich said.
or at least that is what he tells the Cardinal. I would challenge anyone to show me 1 example a day of their Catholic School "pass(ing) on faith". The only Archdiosocean Catholic School with a prayer or Mass requirment is Quigley Seminary, and it is closing.
The Catholic schools succeed in spite of their lack of religious instruction because of an infusion of western civilization skills like traditional arithmetic, logic, and language. The Catholic schools fail in their mission due to a lack of funding and a general nose thumbing towards orthodox Catholics, but that does not prevent a decent education in the ones that are still around.
With the imminent closure of several Catholic Schools, and the tenuous utilization of many others, I must scratch my head at any suggestion of lack of capacity in the Catholic School System.
Jeez.Adlerfan, would you expand on your point a bit? Your comment was so short, we're not quite sure what your argument is. Kidding. good comment.
@Anon: With the overcrowding problem, Catholic Schools would have to assume the entire percentage of students that make create the overcrowd _plus_ a percentage of students to put public schools under capacity. Can they do it?
'The only Archdiosocean Catholic School with a prayer or Mass requirment is Quigley Seminary, and it is closing.' Where do some of you guys get this stuff? Eric Zorn?
Brother Rice, St.Lawrence, Rita, Carmel and I would expect De all have prayer and Catholic Mass as core of the curriculum. I am quite sure that same can be said of
the others as well. I have empirically witnessed this prayerful fact at each of the above.
Not True - Leo has prayer every day and some times twice ( St. Blaise; Ashes; May Honors to Mary & etc.) a day and Mass - even though most kids are non-Catholic.
Many Catholic schools do have required religious education.
Many Catholic schools have options of daily mass, confession, and religious instruction (with opt outs for non Catholics) like the private, independent Opus Dei inspired Northridge Prep.
Even liberal schools like Jesuit Loyola Academy have required religious courses and schoolwide liturgies.
Even the bad or liberal Catholic schools have some residual Latin, Greek, Classics, literature
and some still have some or all aspects of
the Trivium
Quadrivium
Ratio Studiorum (Jesuit at that time HD age and college curriculum)
Catholics also have been the guardians (although not exlusively) of Hellenic thought.
Socrates, Plato and especially Aristotle.
Catholic High Schools, even the most modern and worst, will still at least expose to good literature, and modern ideas and concepts. Many assign Freud, Viktor Frankl, Darwin, Marx, Albert Camus, Augustine, Aquinas. Many times in the orignal works, the actual texts--like Mortimer Adler would suggest (or the modern French theological approach)
Lutheran Schools also give down may times GERMAN, and Protestant thought and heritage (as well as good grammar, discipline) including great German contributions to culture (Bach was actually Lutheran for example, printing press, Gymnasium concept, great engineering feats)
The Jewish schools maintain Hebrew and even Yiddish and there is something to be said just inherently to maintain language that is becoming globally English and the potential to lose languages with international commerce and the internet. Especially with the Orthodox and Haredi schools. Also culture, Torah knowledge etc. Government run schools cannot and maybe should not distribute this culture.
But what about the Tibetan Buddhists who even in their historical homeland face cultural extinction, or American Indians, or St. Terese Chinese Catholic School in Chicago that teaches Chinese, or St. Nicks in Chicago that teches Ukrainian???
Private schools BETTER maintain culture and language and that is not bad. Lots of studies indicate that linguistics can create better mathematicians and computer programmers. Most Europeans are bi or tri-lingual or even polyglots.
Culture, philosopy, literary heritage, language, culture, values ALL should be respected and are and do pass down in private educational institutions and paretns deserve at least a tax break as these students also learn to read English, technical skills, math, are usually safer and become (on the whole) good citizens.
Dear Pat,
It's St. Laurence, thank you very much.
-dan
St. Andrews Lutheran School in Park Ridge (serving over 50% Chicago students and inreasing more on some financial aid) has weekly litury (compulsory), weekly rote memorization and reading out loud of Bible verses (that even if you do not believe in the Bible is good for historical and metaphorical reference, memorization, and history), and German language classes.
The supposedly stricter Opus Dei schools (Embers, Northridge Prep, Willows) have OPTIONAL mass daily, confession opportunities, spiritual direction, and classes with an opt out for non Catholics.
MOST Catholic schools grade and High have school wide liturgies, prayer before and after classes, crucifix(es) and/or images of Mary in the classrooms etc.
SO, while I agree that many Catholic schools SHOULD TEACH LATIN, are TOO LIBERAL, are modernistic and secular in Philosophy and Theology (taking a more Karl Rahner approach while am more of a Hans Urs von Balthasar fan) and the liturgies are many time too modern, "clown", "skits", and not the Tridentine High respectful reception by mouth, communion rail, Gregorian chant or Mozart (or Bach, or Beethoven also) (or even a Eastern Rite "modern" Roman Hurko)--I am not much for the skits, a lack of respect for the Real Presence, modern pop psychology sermons, singing Bridge over troubled waters by Simon and Garfunkel etc. BUT I do think most schools do have Mass and Liturgy.
There is a St. Pius the X school in Oak Park with Black and Hispanic students (Marcel Lefebvre followers) that do daily Pre-Vatican II 1962 Missal, Rosary, Latin instruction, St. Joseph Baltimore Cathechism and Council of Trent theology. (albeit and sadly Schismatics or almost so)
But there are also in union with Rome traditionalist with schools in Aurora, Joliet and not with schools but with other educational institutions St. John Cantius in Chicago, Institute of Christ the King in Hyde Park (among some others)
The Novus Ordo (or Misa Normativa) given by most Opus Dei priests (including the Archdiocese school of St. Mary of the Angels) is respectful and reverent although certainly in English and the rubrics of the post Vatican II mass.
The Jewish schools that I have visited (including the more modern, and pro-gay, and liberal despite the confessional term conservative Anshe Emet) teach HEBREW, some have YIDDISH, and they pray, tell Bible stories, etc.
Same for the Muslim schools.
YES, Some Catholic schools do not longer teach LATIN, they do not have the same MISSION, there Masses are at least Modern if not to some abberations, BUT they still do in most cases have MASSES, PRAYER, RELIGIOUS EDUCATION CLASSES (even if some pop psychology or granting to much ground to Marx, Darwin, and Dan L with stem cells than some would like)--certainly most Catholic Schools teach Sex Ed (including acceptance of homosexuality in some cases), teach Evolution (without Intelligent Design although certainly with a Prime Mover)(Gregor Mendel--the founder of Modern Genetics--and recently an exhibit in Chicago museum--was an Austrian monk), and do not teach the St. Joseph Baltimore Cathechism nor the strictures of Trent. BUT even with all that possible criticism (or objective evaluation) they still have some Latin, Classics, better sense of history, humanities, literature, philosophy, art, music--and a sense of intellectual and cultural HERITAGE--which is important.
The World is changing (Internet, YouTube, Wikipedia, Google, Stem Cell, Test Tube Babies, Napster, Pat McDonough's website, DNA stuff, the Daley/Rove conspiracy, Space Travel)--some people don't like it, but the best of the Catholic tradition (even in the more traditional von Baltasar perspective) is to engage Modernity and be part of it (Not Ammish or some Mennonite but certainly not Luddites) including an embrace (with a critical moral eye) towards technology. Most of these Catholic schools teach kids pretty well (Leo, Hales, Providence, Marist, Carmel, Viadors, Loyola, Ignatius, Fenwick, Rice, Laurence, Maria, Lourdes, Benet, Norte Dame, Ressurrection etc)(and again a shout out to Luther North, Luther South, Timothy Christian, etc)
Most of these kids have GOOD EDUCATIONS, and most parents are MIDDLE CLASS where it is a stretch to pay property taxes AND tuition.
Most parents want a safe environment, a decent education so they can survive economically, and there is nothing wrong in implanting morals and decent behaviour as well as culture and a specific religion. These schools, parents, administrators, teachers go unrecognized and have in most cases NO TO LITTLE GOVERNMENT FUNDING (with again the notable tax credit and some transportation money for parents reimbursment or the creative schools like DeLaSalle getting city money or some schools that get Federal Faith Based initiative money or some TIF benefit etc but NOT money like Public Schools and most are certainly suffering and TOO MANY HAVE CLOSED and not closed because they were bad)
KEEP PRIVATE, RELIGIOUS NON GOVERNMENTAL SCHOOLS OPEN.
RISK THE VOUCHER.
GIVE CHOICE AND COMPETITION
Look at the North or West Suburbs where you have the BEST PUBLIC SCHOOLS and also many private school alternatives:
Does Loyola Academy destroy New Trier?
Do the Christian Brothers destroy Wheaton North or Glenbard South?
COMPETITION AND CHOICE CAN HELP PUBLIC SCHOOLS!!!
Does Northridge Prep or Ressurrection mess up Maine South??
These parents pay taxes. There is freedom of religion.
IT IS ABOUT THE KIDS NOT AN INTERPRETATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.
We don't need to concern ourselves with the question of whether there is enough space in all of the non-public schools for the "exodus" of public school kids who would flee their public schools in a voucher environment. First, because it is highly unlikely that vouchers will be approved in Chicago or Illinois, and secondly because even if they are approved, it would be in limited way (so as to assure there IS space).
What we should concern ourselves with is the likely continuation of closed Archdiocese schools, particularly those schools that are likely to close in the neighborhood where there is currently NO SPACE in adjacent public schools.
The AlderFan makes many valid points. Watch what happens over the next several years when the ArchD is forced to close some (or all) of its low-income schools on Chicago SW and NW sides. 85% of those kids will show up at their neighboring public schools, and everyone of those kids will be forced to join hundreds of their neighbors on a bus heading out of their neighborhood (because these area schools are already far beyond capacity and have been for several years).
An interesting point (besides the Black Catholic subculture and dominance in the Middle Class and politics) is that:
Mayor Daley (Catholic Schools Nativity of Our Lord and DeLaSalle)
(although intellectually that could be a selling point for Public Schools)
Just Seminarians (although again it could be a mixed bag argument)
Eddie Burke (D-14) was a Seminarian
Tom Hynes was a seminarian
Phil Rock
Ed Vrdolyak was a Fransican Seminarian (he has since revoked his vow of poverty)
Dick Phelan was a seminarian
Mike Madigan (Speaker of the House) was a Seminarian
(Besides Vrdolyak MOST are Irish, will not go into the Irish influence (good and bad) on the American Catholic Church)
(Bishop Ireland caused the birth of Eastern Orthodoxy by his tribal, ignorant approach to Eastern Rite Catholics)
(Also the great builder Cardinal Mundeline was German although Hickey can correct me)
SO, the Catholic Seminary education of Latin, reading, discipline, Classics, theology, Aquinas, sports, daily mass, prayer, and for some GK Chesterson, Walker Percy and for the more liberal Teilhard de Chardin (found the Peking Man)
created at least SMART (Daley is smart although perhaps not academically)(Vrdolyak was a University of Chicago grad, Tom Hynes was top his law class at Loyola Univesity)
SO.... one cannot deny that MOST of those who graduated from Catholic Schools (with the possible exception of Todd Stroger an Ignatius grad) had a good if not great education. These Catholic schools have contributed to our leaders in law, politics, and other professions (probably including bad ones).
Some of these seminary graduates may be rogues, crooks, and lack integrity, BUT they are leaders and did/do influence and are smart and got a GOOD Catholic education and some were NOT high income and some immigrants with English as the second tongue.
What would the Church and the world look like if we had priests, monsignors, or even Bishops or Cardinals
Vrdolyak (reminds me of Cajetan or even Pope Alexander VI)
Hynes
Rock
Burke
Madigan
Phelan
etc.???
Modern?
Traditional?
More open Catholic schools?
Pedophilia?
Womanizing?
Better politics?
Worse politics?
As more private (mostly Catholic but read above post NOT exclusively) schools close--the Public School overall cost (read TAXPAYERS, TAX INCREASE) will INCREASE, and overcrowding will increase and NOT at Northside Prep, or the Magnet schools, or Walter Payton BUT in Benito Juarez or Orozco or DuSable etc.
The closing of Catholic inner city schools is BAD for Public education, bad for money (as Catholic schools cost a lot less) and BAD for the kids (most importantly)
The rich Pritzker funded Francis Parker, or U of C related Lab School or Latin (with the banking kids or out of state visiting or rich political kids, will survive (or even Catholic St. Francis Xavier Warde for the Chicago political heavily Irish elite).
EVEN most of the middle class bungalow belt primary schools will survive because the White and increasing Hispanic kids don't go to North Side Prep or Aurora Math and Science but to St. Robert Bellarmine or St. Theclas or St. Luke Lutheran etc. Most of these parents can afford it but it means DEBT, or doing withouth vacations or even extra health care or whatever. But most will stay open but plenty of High Schools have closed down (Middle class heavily Polish Weber, Good Council--all closed down)
WHAT WILL CLOSE DOWN is the INNER CITY, BLACK AND HISPANIC, LOW INCOME SCHOOLS--the ones that are doing amazing work. The ones that defy the stereotypes.
The St. Elizabeths
or Holy Angels
or Grace Lutheran
When they close down North Side Prep will still be good and mostly rich and White and Asian and Jewish (and props to the Asians and Jews who study and have an academic culture, no hating here)
and St. Francis Xavier and Latin will still be open
BUT THE POOR AND MINORITY SCHOOLS WILL BE CLOSED
and the kids will not matter because of Church and State, and more funding for Public Schools, and whatever excuses and lies people can come up with.
It is sad, empirical, logical, I have NEVER seen a counter argument, and IT IS ALREADY HAPPENING. Closing of good schools. More kids in Public schools (yet cries for more money) and many schools are still overcrowded and underperforming.
Farragut (mostly Hispanic) was at a 70% drop out rate.
Benito Juarez at a 50% drop out rate.
Front page stories of kids protesting because of lack of security, racial problems, gangs etc. THIS IS NOT ALL OR ALWYAS THE KIDS FAULT. Many Catholic schools do better.
Sen Meeks cites that only 6 in 100 (6%) of Chicago Public School Students (or is he only citing African Americans) graduate College!!!???
So 94% do NOT graduate college.
Try getting a job with HS Diploma (especially with a CPS diploma or the skills--verbal and written--that most have)
THERE ARE SOME MAJOR PROBLEMS HERE FOLKS (and that is not Folks as in the gang affiliation Folks and Peoples)
"First, because it is highly unlikely that vouchers will be approved in Chicago or Illinois"
With this attitude, no wonder nothing ever gets done.
Dan Hynes never attended a day of public school in his life. The closest thing Barack Obama ever got to a public school was at a Madrassa in Indoenesia, that Eric Zorn denies was a religious school. The list goes on.
To paraphrase Ambassador Keyes, "If private schools are good enough for Sen Obama's children, why aren't they good enough for the rest of the kids on the southside?"
JBP
Patricius Hickey,
Can I come next time to the St. Blaise mass you have at Leo?
I get a little bronchial and a sore throat from the winter.
Most of my genetic stock seems more suited for a warmer climate---although I do love Chicago.
Need the intercession of Blaise to keep me healthy--don't have time to be sick and use my voice a lot.
Congrats on the work you do at Leo. But your politics are a little unfair and sometimes whacked.
It is Adler as in Mortimer Adler (U of C fame, Aristotle/Aquinas, a deathbed convert to Catholicsm in his late 90's--met him a couple of time, don't know him, but love his writings and approach to education--Padeia)
Bail ó Dhia is Mhuire duit
PS: I am impressed by your Spanish
I thought I signed off but I had to come back to comment (in agreement with JB Powers) but than have to leave so I can work and make some shekels with the people Hickey hates so much that punch their political sponsors in the face and claim to be reformers.
I must agree with Obama (whom I had a chance to talk about this very issue while State Senator in a recorded public forum--Obama was very nice and respectful)
BUT Obama NEVER went to a Public School let alone a Chicago Public School let alone an bad or inner city Public School. While he did go to a Muslim private school in Indonesia (not a Madrassah as in Pashtun school on the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan and certainly don't think he is an Al-Queda sleeper that is stupid and disrespectful)--he went to an elite (one THE most elite besides the Hawaiian separatist school)Hawaiian private school--which is fine. Don't know where his kids go (U of C lab?) BUT I think it is a legitimate issue that politicians don't support choice for other parents BUT they have the power (through money or otherwise) to opt out of the Public School system (Jimmy Carter did choose Public in DC) BUT the Clintons sent Hilary Clinton to the elite Quaker Sidney Friends school, Al Gore and Jesse Jackson Jr went to St. Albans (Jesse Jr went to elite Episcopalian DC based boarding schools but wants everyone else to go to CPS schools regardless of desire or how good they are) and according to Powers Obama sends his kids to private schools. WHY NOT LET OTHER KIDS HAVE THE SAME OPTIONS THAT GORE, CLINTON, JACKSON and OBAMA HAD?
(as a side note Bill Clinton, a non Catholic, grew up low income--WENT TO CATHOLIC SCHOOLS HIS WHOLE LIFE) It is hypocricy it is fair game?
They keep on talking about public money, Church and State, it is there choice--but that is a two tier system only based on money and private schools only for the rich.
Barack Obama (until becoming a State Senator after a relatively short time in Chicago and maybe even after that) could not have spoken about intimate knowledge of the Chicago Public School System (or the Catholic, Christian, Muslim alternatives) in his area.
He had a privileged educational upbringing with incredible opportunity (although no doubt he was naturally gifted and worked hard)
WHY NOT GIVE OTHER AFRICAN AMERICAN KIDS THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT OBAMA DID???????
Powers is right and this is a fair game issue (even if there is a certain privacy and personal right as were to send your kids to school EVEN if an elected official BUT if it is hypocrtical or hurts others or goes so manifestly against logica and public policy it becomes fair game)
EDIT:
I meant I must agree with POWERS about Obama NOT I agree with Obama (at least not on the issue of educational choice)
One More:
PLEASE KEEP INNER CITY PRIVATE SCHOOLS OPEN.
PLEASE
MANY ARE DOING SO MUCH GOOD WITH KIDS
Dan L
Here are some empty Catholic Schools if you need capacity:
All Saints/St. Anthony*512 W. 28th
St Martin de Porres*Washington and Le Claire 3 Buildings
Our Lady of Peace*78th and Joffrey
(beautiful building btw)
Holy Trinity 1118 Noble
St George 3600 E. 96th
St. Genevieve 4834 W. Montana
St. Clotilde 321 E 84th
Our Lady Gate of Heaven 2330 E 99th
Our Lady of Angels (Pulaski and Grand..i think) several vacancies
St. Boniface Chicago Ave (vacant for years)
Our Lady of Pompeii 1224 W. Lexington
I am sure there are others.
How about filling these up first, then worrying about a lack of capacity?
The current public school administration and the mayor stand behind "school choice". Public school choice, that is.
That's what Renaissance 2010 is all about, new schools for kids traditionally forced to attend non-performing, traditional neighborhood public schools.
But is school choice really choice if it involves only public schools.
Consider that virtually all inner-city Archdiocese schools are far more similar to traditional neighborhood public schools than they are to Chicago's elite private schools (both Catholic and other).
And virtually all of Chicago's elite magnet/gifted public schools are far more similar to Chicago's elite private schools than they are to Chicago's neighborhood public schools.
Something very interesting occurred at a press conference yesterday with the mayor and CPS leadership. Ros Rossi asked the mayor, "what about those public schools that are doing so well that they are now overcrowded?"
The mayor burst into applause and essentially said, "Great. Good for us. For years middle-income parents fled to the suburbs, and now they're choosing public schools. Good for us."
And he's right. Good for us. Good for Chicago and good for Chicago Public Schools.
Yet questions remain...Chicago's mostly poor, inner-city minority students cannot choose to attend the schools that Rossi was referring to because these schools are filled to the brim with happy choosing middle-class kids.
Nor can Chicago's mostly poor, inner-city minority students choose to enroll in inner-city Catholic schools, either because those schools closed or they are unaffordable.
The schools that Chicago's mostly poor, inner-city minority students CAN choose from are the new crop of quasi-private charter schools, which are mostly located primarily in formerly shuttered Catholic school facilities.
Now that is true irony for the pro-voucher crowd.
Here is a sampling of Archdiocese/private order Catholic schools' enrollment declines over the last few years on Chicago's SW side, where all of the public schools are so overcrowded that kids are bussed out of the neighborhood:
Maria: -43%
St. Bruno: -16%
Pope JPII: -43%
St. Gall: -13%
St. Turibius: -38%
St. Mary Star of Sea: -29%
St. Nicholas: -20%
Dan wrote Allowing for profit institutions into the game of primary and secondary education is a little bit like inviting a fox into the hen house.
The fox is already in the hen house, and it's about 3/4 the way through all the hens, and the Blagolature is about to deliver more hens to the fox.
Though I haven't read all of the tomes posted here, the fact is that all you need to do to convert to choice is;
1. Abolish the property tax for Ed
2. Increase Illinois State revenues toward Education by about $8-9 billion.
3. Give every child a $7,000 scholarship redeemable at any school of their choice. (public or private)
4. Abolish the school district and convert every IL public school into a independent charter school.
____
There are certainly details to be worked out, but the existing system is so fraught with waste, fraud and abuse that any alternative would be better.
And if anyone thinks that a class of protected bureaucrats that have bought and paid dearly for the legislation protecting them aren't interested in 'obscene profits', then you aren't paying attention to the Energy Scams, Building Scams, Text book Scams, the Testing scams, Bond Churning Scams, and (drum roll please) the pension scams that are the hallmark of Illinois public education system.
There is no intellectually sound argument against Funding Children, not Systems.
Adler Fan,
Got the beesfax around the gullet on feb. 3rd - next year dude.
As far as Leo - Proud work my man,; we do what we can.
My politics Are as whacked as the whackey world of politics allows ( Hey, you should see my book self Hijole!)- the less tinged with flower booster the better. I ain't that bright and tend toward the empirical - 'I see what you have done - you wrote a check; you coach here;teach here; do here; that adds up. I get that.' All the rest grows rose.
Via con Dios y La Virgina y Los Santos!
John Paul II in the 14th ward was saved by Alderman Ed Burke and also by the donations from the Magnus estate.
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