When you're relaxing in a bar, when you're relaxing in a church.... you should not use physical force against anyone because of an argument
The Police beat citizens. Afterwords the Police threaten citizens with retaliation if they complain. So the Mayor turns Police brutality into an opportunity to lecture the citizenry thus,
"The responsibility of every citizen is not have a fight with their neighbors and with their family. How is that? That is very, very simple," the mayor told reporters after dedicating a pair of new homes in Englewood.Read the Taguba Report on Abu Garib. You'll find this citation,
"When you're relaxing in a bar, when you're relaxing in a church, when you're relaxing walking down the street and when you're in your home, you should not use physical force against anyone because of an argument about the White Sox or the Cubs or the Tribune or the Sun-Times."
4. (U) The individual Soldiers and Sailors that we observed and believe should be favorably noted include:The US Army policed itself, investigated, and disciplined well before CBS broke the story. I don't see anyone in CPD who took immediate action, stopped an abuse, and reported it to the chain of command.
a. (U) Master-at-Arms First Class William J. Kimbro, US Navy Dog Handler, knew his duties and refused to participate in improper interrogations despite significant pressure from the MI personnel at Abu Ghraib.
b. (U) SPC Joseph M. Darby, 372nd MP Company discovered evidence of abuse and turned it over to military law enforcement.
c. (U) 1LT David O. Sutton, 229th MP Company, took immediate action and stopped an abuse, then reported the incident to the chain of command.
Instead mumbo jumbo from the Mayor about what citizens should do in Church. What an insult to Chicagoans who have to think twice now about asking a cop for help.
34 comments:
Wow whoever you are you work fast.
An interesting take on the story about the cop abusing that lady bartender. A very unfortunate situation. But looking at the quote chosen here I'm not sure what the mayor's point was.
The examples he mentioned was like duh, but somewhat pointless because everyone knows that we shouldn't fight each other over that petty stuff. Not only that Abatte didn't engage in that behavior because of all that.
I want to delete all they anonyomous folks who post allegations.
Chicagos got a big and I belive long standing problem going with the Police but I don't want to see the discussion get mired in this anon name calling and stuff.
So thanks to all in advance.
I know Levois, and he says it in Englewood of all places were Chicago has let residents down with the most fundamental of services: the security to walk your streets in safety.
We fear the gangs, we fear the cops.
Most of the other stuff we jabber about on this blog is senseless if Government can't provide that basic service.
The Mayor should have begged Englewood's forgiveness for letting CPD get out of control and the cops and hoodlums join together istead of telling us how to relax.
The Sup was never the most important police guy
it was always the 11th ward First Deputy
those who know don't say
those who say don't know
I know and am saying
What about Gerald Briemon (google Channel 9) the son of Jan Peska cop who molested a woman, tried to bribe her, and is a sexual pervert that even other cops admit
Townsend...can you give us some links to all of this kind of stuff... otherwise its not backed up enough to keep.
Check out
www.frankcoconate.com
follow the links
also to check out the Dick Devine deps (he hired and still has brutal cops)
on
www.google
video
Richard Devine
Daley has done some stupid speeches,
but that was one of the worse
Daley is an idiot
Off Duty Cop Beats up Bartender = Making POW's do frat pranks?
Jesus. This is still a little over the top.
Dan,
These police issues are complicated and multilayered.
Some questions:
1. Did Jon Burge commit torture?
Yes or No
(Maybe there is media hype, or lies from convicts, or lies or hype from plaintiffs lawyers who are trying to make money--but what are the facts and specifics)
(Burge being the face for the other officers whose names are not as well known and(or) as another individual as it seems there are many different officers involved that may or may not have any involvement or the same level of involvement)
2. Did Jon Burge do other things wrong (even if not torture per se or otherwise)?
Yes or No
if so what?
(Maybe it was not torture and just some brutal but maybe nececssary acts to find out about crimes)
3. If Jon Burge did commit torture (or other wrongdoing short of torture)was it systematic?
4. If there was torture by Burge individually, and(or) other officers, and if it was systematic (or not) was it covered up?
(Burge could of done torture and there could of been nobody else involved, no cover up, but individual acts of wrongdoing)
5. Was there a conspiracy to protect the officers (if they did do wrong doing)?
6. If this is all a commie journalist/commie money grubbing lawyer lie(s) than why is there so much on the subject (just do a google search? Is it just a witch hunt against good officers (that is not what it seems to be by some "superifical reading"?
7. Did/do any elected officials know about this (if it did happen) like Mayor Daley or District Attorney Devine?
The problem with this discussion it seems there is a lot of attacks on the individuals and other not relevant discussion. For me the question is if the allegations did (or did not) occur.
A secondary, (although not politically correct discussion) is whether or not some police methods are justified based on the nature of the crimes, the neighborhoods, or the people involved--the importance of the Constitution notwithstanding, there is a realpolitik and reality in practice that some people may not understand--although I am not necessarily saying it is right.
The Abate officer thing is good theatre, but is hard to draw a conclusion--again excellent visual--but what does it mean (beyong the individual or incident itself)
I am not sure what happened at Abu Gharaib was just Fraternity pranks.
Again, understanding the difficulty of being a soldier and the situtation. Did the Geneva Convention apply?
Regardless of Geneva Convention, Abu Garib violated the Army's rules of conduct.
The Army's system and training taught troops to report violations and the system started working to correct. It didn't work well enough to prevent a costly error, but it corrected.
The CPD's system doesn't work that way, and it's the Mayor's job to start making sure it does.
Abu Garib did horrible damage to the United States.
But Chicago get's repeated examples of brutality and so many just sluff it off as stuff happens.
The 11th Ward and police control connection (mostly through Townsend) connection is HUGE.
Also the former Red Squad Chicago Police officer Jeremiah Joyce issue is also HUGE. Politically connected cops ending up at the Sheriff's office, Aviation Security, State's Attorneys office--are not on accident and not without clout, and some even getting 1996 meritourious promotions--officers who were accused of torture, at least one officer convicted felon Pederson as an investigator in the Cook County Public Defenders unit EVEN AFTER BUDGET cutbacks--now do you know why they attack Peraica?
Why does _everything_ regardless of what it is, link back to Jon Burge with the resident red liners?
When I'm relaxing at church this Easter Sunday and someone starts the usual Sun-Times argument, I'll remember the words of our wise mayor and refrain from using physical force. Thanks, Richie.
Burge is a rhetorical device that precludes any original thought on any issue as long as that five letter word can be resurrected bathrobed blogging losers and lazy news people have an easier job.
Poor school -/Burge & police torture
soaring murder rate in the inner - city - Burge & police torure
closing Catholic schools - Burge & police torture
It works for anti-Daley fired City workers with cable TV shows; columnists with no sense of ethics;idiotic political candidates; and it makes a great converstaional casserole for nitwits.
Phil Kadner at the Daily Southtown writes real news copy. His column was a knockout.
I am Blue Liner against Burge torture.
Personally, I think they're just pissed off that they never got Daley with the Jon Burge story. Hell - they didn't even get Jon Burge with the Jon Burge story. I think the fable of it all got them all aroused thinking they were finally going to get their money shot - and just like the impotent turds they are - got nothing.
It's like Karl Rove Syndrome all over - obsessive.
They should do an HBO documentary about it all.....and have that Kim Drool Jim guy from Beachwood Reporter get interviewed about it.
HA!
Killjoong Kim - whatever. I just can't keep track of the transplant cubs fans.
Or we can have a documentary where you and Hickey "debunk" the Burge story while stroking each others' egos. You can open with an offering to Daley.
Didn't get Burge? HE GOT FIRED BY THE CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT.
Didn't get Burge? ED EGAN AND BOB BOYLE SAID HE SHOULD OF BEEN INDICTED AND WOULD OF BEEN CONVICTED.
Didn't get Burge?--If the people he caught were guilty and Bad--THEY ARE FREE NOW AND THAT WOULD BE BAD. Overturned by Courts and the Governor.
Despite the comments by Hickey, a Court granted the evil Wilson brothers $100,000 and Flint Taylor $900,000 in lawyers fees and found that they were tortured--that is just one case, there are others, and more pending. The city recently offered 15 million for three defendants.
Didn't get Daley? WHO SAID HE SHOULD GET CAUGHT? He is not personally accussed of participating, but more what he knew or more probably should of known. DALEY SAID THAT WHAT BURGE DID WAS DESPICABLE AND THAT AREA 2 AND 3 WERE SHAMEFUL PERIODS IN CHICAGO HISTORY. THAT IS DALEY'S WORDS. HE ALSO SAID HE IS SORRY, HE IS RESPONSBLE, AND HE WILL APOLOGIZE TO ANYONE WHO WAS TORTURED.
Also--HIS DEPOSITION WAS NEVER TAKEN IN CIVIL NOR CRIMINAL PROCEEDINGS AND IS PENDING IN THE CIVIL CASES.
FABLE? Dan L--What fable?
1. Burge's termination
2. 2 separate OPS reports
3. various Civil cases
4. Special Prosecutors Report
ALL said Burge and about a half dozen or so police officers committed crimes.
This is not media or lawyers but City and County and Police officials
There are still pending FEDERAL CRIMINAL and CURRENT CIVIL investigations and cases now ready to go to trial--that is no fable.
The State Criminal proceeding stated unequivocaly (the so called Burge report of the Special Prosecutors Office of former Appellate Judge Edward Egan and Attorney Robert Boyle) that the POLICE OFFICERS DID COMMIT AGGRAVATED BATTERY BUT THE STATUTE HAD RUN AND THEY COULD NO LONGER BE INDICTED BUT SHOULD OF HAVE AND WOULD OF BEEN CONVICTED.
This is not the WIRE on HBO.
This is not the SHIELD not F/X.
This is not the Sopranos or OZ on HBO.
This is not even Dan's favorite Queer as Folk on Showtime.
THIS IS REALITY.
There is no fable. Burge did "get away". It was Mayor Daley's Chief of Staff Sheila O'Grady (sister of Sheriff Sheehan's Chief of Staff Paul O'Grady and protege of Victor Reyes) who said (with other attorneys from the city) that they should:
1. CUT BURGE's PENSION
2. STOP PAYING THE TENS OF MILLIONS IN DEFENSE BILLS
and
3. THEY WOULD BE ON THE HOOK FOR MILLIONS IN SETTLEMENT DOLLARS FOR POLIC CONDUCT
Sorry the truth hurts,
go make some jokes or insults.
The Army has better process, procedure and due process than the Chicago Police. Most citizens of whatever race and class have bad experiences with the Chicago police.
They are routinely rude, unprofessional--sometimes vulgar and brutal.
The physical standards are abysmal.
Many things are covered up.
The CPD would do well to get more soldiers in their ranks.
Republicans could get a lot of traction with:
1. BLACKS by attacking REAL POLICE TORTURE including BURGE.
2. Criticizing Daley over defending SANCHEZ who was connected to convicted Drug Dealers (Federal Prado conviction off the US Attorneys website), gang bangers (from the El Rukns to Latin Kings today--many Stories suntimes.com Novak/Wambir series including convicted TWO SIX gang member and Hired Trucks head Angelo Torres. How can Daley defend Sanchez (who was connected to the El Rukns since the 82 and 83 when he was with Vrdolyak)
When Daley defends the indefensible in Sanchez and HDO, one can believe that a cover up with the more significant Burge during a different area is even more possible.
Is this really how the tale of Jon Burge ends? With random WATB comparing the outrage of their torture demon to the non-outrage of abu gharib and one random drunken asshole who beat up a bartender?
It sounds like you kids are bitter that you've got a total of 0 indictments with all of your squawking.
Dan,
There were no indictments because Richie Daley and Dick Devine were the State's Attorneys.
You got terminations, OPS determinations, Special Prosecutor recommendations, civil suit financial judgements (against the City in the name of officers), and settlements. That is a lot.
Lots of bad people don't get indicted. The Feds are still investigating and want to RICO--look for something to shift on April 24.
OMG April 24 you'll finally get your RICO indictments!!
LOL. I'm banking against it. I look forward to taunting.
The whole point and the investigation was that there was a conspiracy and cover up.
The US Attorneys is looking into a pattern of abuse, and have talked a little about it, including perjury, civil rights abuses, and conspiracy.
Part of the reason it may be slow is that there was a cover up and the people being sued are the people that should of investigated (Devine and Daley)and that time people did not know what we know today or has been revealed in civil court.
It has only been recently that you have a truly independent and aggressive US Attorney.
OMG We finally got the HDO indictments yet Daley still defends HDO and Sanchez
2004 indictment and conviction of Angelo Torres the gang banger who ran the Hired Trucks program giving tax dollars to outfit trucking companies
2005 indictement and subsequent guilty plea of George Prado on heroin dealing charges out of the water department
It took some time but
2007 indictment of Al Sanchez and Erin DelValle for the same things but worse than in Sorich and Slattery et al
Daley knew about this for years and covered it up.
HDO police officers like State Rep Acevedo and Manny Acevedo beat up people, people died after being put in a coma, drunk driving
Daley never condemned them.
The State's Attorney never investigated or indicted.
Bad people stayed on the job.
Daley and Devine both knew about this, got letters, complaints, in person requests to investigate.
The above stories are not rumors but all can be found in news stories, police reports, TV reports, civil suit public filings, federal indictments that are public, court decisions and plea agreements.
It is not hard to understand that Burge would not have been investigated (with things that implicated lots of cops, brass, and politicians) considering I have seen and it is obvious just by watching that Daley knew everything Victor Reyes and Al Sanchez were doing not just with jobs that nobody cares about (even though they hurt a lot of good people) but also gang involvement, violence, and drug dealers (again not allegations but convicted drug dealers in Federal public documents who are members of HDO, gave money to HDO, gave money to Senator Munoz, and worked with Senator Munoz's violent brother (per the Sun Times article about Martin Munoz hitting a coworker in the head with a lead pipe and still being on the bob) and father, again major drug dealers with the Columbian Carter (Prado indictment and guilty plea)
Daley knew about all this.
Daley has never investigated or even mildly criticized.
So is there a possibility of a cover up on something even more damaging to reputations or indictments? Maybe at least possibly.
If 10% of the Burge allegations are true by the so called commie lawyers and journalists--it would rock the city to it's core if Mayors, State's Attorneys, Police Commishes all knew and allowed this wierd kind of torture.
I don't know for sure, I wasn't there. The bottom line for me is did he torture people or not.
Again, DID BURGE TORTURE PEOPLE OR NOT?
and DID INNOCENT PEOPLE GO TO JAIL THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE?
Those are the two important questions.
However, I believe it could of happened because Daley allowed the Hispanic Democratic Organization (HDO) to run rough shot over the Hispanic community like gang banger group of arrogant thugs.
The whole point and the investigation was that there was a conspiracy and cover up.
Enjoy the wait.
Dan,
Enjoy your taxpayer dollars going to lowlife because Burge did bad police work and there was a cover up.
Burge has cost us way too much money.
It is not just the fault of shark lawyers but the city who has lied and not settled these and other matters quicker and more honestly for political purposes.
I tend to just blame the low life, in that case.
Burge was the lowlife in this case.
Police can be lowlifes and scumbags too.
Unfortunately a small minority are.
When I am in Church I will not get into a fight this Easter.
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