Rep. John Fritchey's wasted five minutes of silence
Surprised fundamental secularists among us haven't picked up on this one,
Illinois public school students would have to observe a daily moment of silence under a plan approved Thursday that appears to skirt constitutional bans on classroom prayer.and...
These daily rituals are optional under current law. The new plan, approved by the Democrat-controlled House, would set up a moment of silence each morning for elementary and high school students. However, teachers or children who don’t comply wouldn’t face penalties.
State Rep. William Davis, a Homewood Democrat who sponsored the plan, said the short breaks would encourage students to settle down, not promote unconstitutional religious activities.I remember Sen Pat Moynihan on Face the Nation years ago when asked by Tim Russert about school prayer. Moynihan responded, I've never known a child harmed by prayer.
Opponents said the plan does just that. Others weren’t sure if the change would benefit students.
“If we’re making them do it for two seconds, we haven’t done a damn thing,” said Rep. John Fritchey, a Chicago Democrat. “If we make them do it for five minutes, we’re taking up class time.”
I've never known a kid harmed by five minutes of silence. I'd argue for a second five minutes before lunch to thank the Secretary of Agriculture --for the secularists-- for the great abundance in this land. One need not be a believer to value ritual and silence. Spending time with kids can easily convince one of the merits.
Update: forget the silence. I'd have every school play FDR's D-day prayer. Kids or Teachers don't like it. They go wait in the lunch room.
16 comments:
Aren't we fighting a war in the middle east against people whose main goal is to use government to shove religion down people's throats? I've never accused conservatives of logical consistency and I won't start here.
No, were not fighting a war like that... in the words of an Iraqi Communist and an American ally, this is the war we fight,
Despite everything, the march towards democracy in Iraq proceeds. It started with the first open national elections in our history. The January 2005 election saw millions of Iraqis braving the threats of extremists and casting their vote to elect Iraq’s first democratically accountable government. Ordinary people then defied extremists again to ratify Iraq’s first permanent constitution. It may be flowed, but remains the most progressive constitution in the region.
There are other democratic achievements such as the move towards a free press and the development of a multiparty system and civil society. This includes a free trade union movement which has soared from a small underground movement to a significant force. It is not driven by ideology or religion. Its motivation by the improving is to improve the lot of ordinary Iraqis and work with other progressive forces to build a free and open society.
All these suggest that the vast majority of Iraq want a brighter future of democracy, prosperity and human rights. But nothing is ordained, and the international community can still make huge difference. The support of the United Nations and the European Union is vital. The alternative is misery and death on a massive scale that will haunt humanity.
Ten minutes of silence hardly seems incompatible with any of it.
The prayer I heard every morning in my New York State school seemed pretty harmless.
It did recognize a God, though,I think.
You've never been a jewish student forced to pray outside your religion in a public school.
Or you never asked anybody who was.
You are the problem. Not the people who don't want to be forced to practice your type of religion.
Bill,
I'm not sure where you're going with this one. My point was one of legislative honesty.
If the point of the bill is to try to get around the prayer in school issue, they should say so.
If the point is that there is some benefit to have some period of silence, be it 5 seconds or 10 minutes, they should try to defend that.
But to change an existing permissive law to one that creates a mandate, yet has no stated purpose, nor penalties for non-compliance, doesn't strike me as much more than posturing.
I sincerely don't mean this contentiously, but I think that regardless of one's position on the underlying issue, we have a duty to try to maintain a legitimate sense of purpose in the laws that we pass.
Have a good weekend all.
If the point of the bill is to try to get around the prayer in school issue, they should say so.
Why?
The law creates a moment of silence in schools. Enough said.
If it were me, I'd put that moment before lunch and suggest it as a moment of reflection and thanks.
I see how that harms no one. I see it only doing good.
This all best left to local school boards, but since that seems impossible to allow these days; then this law seems like a very good thing indeed.
There is nothing theocratic about it. A dictate maybe? Sure, but spend some time with kids in schools. They need a little dictating too and a moment of reflection a good thing for all. It's not time wasted.
What is interesting too is how this law was overlooked by most Illinois bloggers (as far as I can tell.)
I believe it is called the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act.
That seems too honestly reflect it's intent.
The real issue is how the "moment of silence" is implemented.
Forty-five years after the Supreme Court ruled that official prayer in public schools violates the First Amendment, we still see examples of teachers and administrators proselytizing.
In DeKalb County, Alabama, a school broadcast Christian prayers over the PA system. A Jewish student in a Utah school was forced to participate in Mormon worship services as part of choir class.
A mandatory moment of silence simply gives cover to teachers and administrators who wish to proselytize.
A mandatory moment of silence simply gives cover to teachers and administrators who wish to proselytize.
How? They're supposed to be silent too.
Bill, your post about Iraq doesn't apply to the war in Afgahnistan or Bush's frequent claim that Iraq is really about fighting Al-Qaeda, whose goal is to usher in theocratic governments to shove religion down the throats of children and others. It doesn't seem that you're able to refute the comparison between foreign and domestic theocrats.
FDR explained the goals back in 1941 when we confronted facsism. They hold true today. Here's the Four Freedoms speech,
In the future days, which we seek to make secure, we look forward to a world founded upon four essential human freedoms.
The first is freedom of speech and expression -- everywhere in the world.
The second is freedom of every person to worship God in his own way -- everywhere in the world.
The third is freedom from want -- which, translated into world terms, means economic understandings which will secure to every nation a healthy peacetime life for its inhabitants -- everywhere in the world.
The fourth is freedom from fear -- which, translated into world terms, means a world-wide reduction of armaments to such a point and in such a thorough fashion that no nation will be in a position to commit an act of physical aggression against any neighbor-- anywhere in the world.
That is no vision of a distant millennium. It is a definite basis for a kind of world attainable in our own time and generation. That kind of world is the very antithesis of the so-called new order of tyranny which the dictators seek to create with the crash of a bomb.
To that new order we oppose the greater conception -- the moral order. A good society is able to face schemes of world domination and foreign revolutions alike without fear.
Since the beginning of our American history, we have been engaged in change -- in a perpetual peaceful revolution -- a revolution which goes on steadily, quietly adjusting itself to changing conditions -- without the concentration camp or the quick-lime in the ditch. The world order which we seek is the cooperation of free countries, working together in a friendly, civilized society.
This nation has placed its destiny in the hands and heads and hearts of its millions of free men and women; and its faith in freedom under the guidance of God. Freedom means the supremacy of human rights everywhere. Our support goes to those who struggle to gain those rights or keep them. Our strength is our unity of purpose.
To that high concept there can be no end save victory.
From Congressional Record, 1941, Vol. 87, Pt. I.
I don't see how a mandated time of silence in school violates freedom of every person to worship God in his own way -- everywhere in the world.
We mandate the texts kids read, make them take civics test, tell them what they can wear.. a moment of silence kids can do with as they wish seems a very good thing...
...time spent thinking about FDR's Four Freedoms since so many Americans can't sort that out from Al Qaeda.
The fascism of 1941 little different then the fascism coming from Al Qaeda.
I've never known a kid harmed by five minutes of silence. I'd argue for a second five minutes before lunch
Yeah Bill? Well I've never known a kid harmed by five more minutes of reading or math instruction.
5 minutes a day, 5 days a week, 32 weeks a year, 800,000 school students: that's over 10 million hours of learning being lopped off the school calendar each year in Illinois, and 160 fewer hours of instruction that each child will get during their K-12 schooling.
Someone please remind me again what the primary purpose of our public school system is? Because the last time I checked, Chicago already had the shortest school day of any big city in the country.
Thanks y'all for making it even shorter.
On the subject of teachers and administrators using a moment of silence to proselytize, Bill asks:
How? They're supposed to be silent too.
The teachers and administrators explain the context and reason for the moment of silence. Otherwise, it's just a way to waste time.
Does anyone think that a moment of silence will (or even should) be introduced by simply saying, "OK, kids, now be quiet for a while."
It's far more likely that a teacher or principal will say something like, "Now we will have a moment of quiet to reflect on our lives and the day ahead."
Or, in the Bible Belt a teacher might say, "Now let's bow our heads in a moment of prayer or reflection to our God and Savior, Jesus Christ." And that would be a mild form of proselytizing; I can easily imagine much more direct preaching.
Bill wrote:
"I don't see how a mandated time of silence in school violates freedom of every person to worship God in his own way -- everywhere in the world."
Actually, it does tell people that instead of worshiping in their own way (or not at all if that is their way) that they must worship with five minutes of government mandated silence imposed on impressionable children in school.
Thanks for pointing out how this law violates a basic American principle that people should be able to choose their own time, place and style of worship rather than the government making that decision for us.
Does anyone think that a moment of silence will (or even should) be introduced by simply saying, "OK, kids, now be quiet for a while."
That would do it. That's what the law asks for and nothing more.
I am a public school teacher and there are only three things that will force me to leave teaching and none of them have to do with the most egregious problem in schools today; the growing number of people with children who think that the word "Parent" is only a noun! The three things that will cause me to leave my chosen profession are being forced to: use corporal punishment, carry a weapon or promote prayer! This is a form of prayer be very clear.
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