Chuck Goudie: sell the schools, not the lotto
Goudie had a good column in yesterday's Herald asking why we don't consider selling the schools instead of selling the lottery.
He relates some horror stories on bloated adminstrations and exhorbinate salaries and concludes,
Judging by the most recent results of statewide science testing, something needs to be done. Almost three-quarters of Illinois’ fourth- and eighth-graders flunked the test on physical, life and earth sciences. The results were even lower than five years and worse than the national average.Seems everyone sees through this lottery sale scheme, and I wonder if Rev Meeks isn't feeling Blagojevich shellaced him with a goofy deal.
Selling the Illinois Lottery might be an easy answer. It certainly would be politically expedient for the governor if it could be tied up with a neat ribbon before the November election.
It would pump some fast money into the schools. But if the cash just ends up fattening administrators’ wallets, why not leave the Lotto alone?
32 comments:
Meeks is an idiot or a hypocrite, but this deal is not good for the kids
Interesting plan.
Of course, the plan will destroy our kids, since overall, when controlled for socioeconomic status, any private school advantage disappears.
School choice - Vouchers - is theonly real reform mechanism.
There is such a thing as just starting over. That'll be the ultimate reform. It's probably about time to consider this as soon as performing real reform doesn't get reduced to the simplistic mantra of destroying the kids.
Levois - take a look at 79th Street;it look a lot of tearing down and it is beginning to look good again.
If it's broke - replace it.
School Choice is working where they had the guts to give it a try.
Skeeter,
When controlled for socio-economic status, all evidence that "higher spending=better results" disappears as well.
Those who live by statistical analysis die by statistical analysis.
There is no rational argument agaisnt school choice. Any consideration for bureaucrats, their pensions, teacher pay, teacher pensions, computers, text books, etc. etc. are all a smoke screen to keep money flowing into a protected monopoly.
If anyone asks themselves "what should it really take to educate a child" (the only rational question for a taxpayer), they would rapidly see through the manufactured "complexity" of such idiotic concepts as "education funding reform".
They would simply look at what America is capable of doing, apply about $5-7000 to every child in America - to spend as the family sees fit - and know that the ensuing renaissance would benefit the nation.
Any consideration of the current "education industry" and the absurd institutions that make it up is a waste of mental effort. They CAUSED this mess.
There is no intellectually sound argument against school choice - assuming that educating children is your goal.
Providence St. Mel is in one of the most impoverished neighborhoods in Chicago (and the entire USA), draws from it's own neigbhborhood, and has 100% accetpance at post-secondary education (college).
Students at PSMel score 21% above the overall national average on achievement tests.
Now repeat to yourself very slowly, "since overall, when controlled for socioeconomic status, any private school advantage disappears" because it would take years of hypnosis to actually believe that is true.
JB,
One reliable study would do it.
"A New Look at Public and Private Schools: Student Background and Mathematics Achievement" appears in the May 2005 issue of Phi Delta Kappan, a highly regarded education journal.
"Analyzing raw data from the 2000 National Assessment of Educational Progress for 28,000 fourth- and eighth-graders representing more than 1,300 public and private schools, Mrs. Lubienski, whose research focuses on equity issues in math education, was surprised by what she was seeing. When children of similar socioeconomic status were compared, the public school children scored higher."
You might want to read some studies rather than just repeating your tired old mantras. We are talking about education, after all. You might want to try it.
Skeeter relies on statistics, I rely on freedom! Great idea from Chuck Goudie. I currently work at a public school that seems to have problems with money but is adding on to 2 buildings while closing one building. It would cost them $500,000 to demolish the building. Instead, they are going to let the building sit empty. It will still be heated because the school board does not want "the building to rot." Heating the school, according to one of the janitors, cost the district $60,000 a year. So... in ten years, we are going to be short $100,000 because all government does, including school boards, is try to cover their asses. In ten years when the rest of the public learns how much it costs to keep the building, they will be upset. But why would school admins and the board care about that? In 10 years, they are long gone. You can take that cost and add it to the 2 additions to the buildings, plus the asbestos abatements and we are talking millions. 100 year old building getting an addition on it.... It makes me sick. But what makes me even more sick is the fact that the public fell for their scheme... what an ordeal. This is worse than the consolidation... anyone who has been through a consolidation knows how these messes are. Can't wait for work tomorrow....
Lovie,
You are perfectly free to educate your kids wherever you want.
What does freedom have to do with it? I have to pay for roads that I don't use. You have to pay for schools that you don't use. Welcome to America.
Pat yourself on the back for sending your kids to private schools if it makes you feel good, but don't claim that you are motivated by "freedom." Freedom has nothing to do with it.
Of course, if freedom is the issue, are you going to stand with me against spending my tax dollars on anything in Du Page?
Skeeter,
Please explain how Providence St Mel does it then, despite Phi Beta Kappa telling them that they cannot.
I cannot fathom why anyone would be in favor of our Chicago public school system, where you are nearly as likely to go to prison as to graduate from college.
JBP
It's not about freedom. Of course you're free.
It's about power. And the power that comes with money.
Whether Illinois will have the power, or devolve it to users by giving vouchers, or revamping the schools under vendors rather than employees.
The Brookings Institute study by Chubb and Moe (not a conservative think tank) supports educational choice, principal autonomy, values, discipline etc. as some of the reasons. Also, the Genetski report supports the financial support for this concept (basically what Hickey--and I rarely agree with him and his 19th/Joyce apologetics--but Hickey is correct that if the Archdiocese closed down all its schools that the Public system could not accomodate. Private schools help overcrowding and cost.
Controlling for socio-economic etc variables, the private schools do incredibly well, it is in wealthy areas that there is not much of a difference between lets say Hindsale and Fenwick or Loyola Academy and New Trier. Where the difference comes in and really helps is in lower income and minority areas, where some public high schools do not have basuc safety, like some amazing innovative schools: Cristo Rey run by the Jesuits, or San Miguel but the Christian Brothers--for the Hispanic areas.
These Catholic Schools like Hales Fransiscan, Providence St. Mel, among others (African American, public housing, low income etc.) DO MORE WITH THE SAME STUDENTS. Different philosophies, spirituality, BACK TO BASICS, rote memorization, etc etc.
School Choice, allowing PARENTS to choose is fair and equitable and will improve education overall.
Let's sell of Resko to the Iraqis and Kelly to the Feds and Lon Monk back to California.
Let's privatize Rod Blagojevich and sell his hair.
Great.
I don't want to pay for Du Page roads.
Are you going to stand with me?
Or is this really about "freedom"?
Sure it isn't actually about "the government should fund my child's religious education"?
Let's be intellectually honest here.
If it is about freedom, join my "no roads for Du Page" movement.
Unlike you all, I'm all for private schools -- funded privately. I want my kids to have a strong Catholic education, but unlike you all I admit that what I want for them is a Catholic education and I have enough respect for the rest of the people in this State to not ask them to pay for my child's religious education.
Um... excuse me, roads are something that anybody with a car can use, or you can walk along a road. Me, I can't send my kids to another public school district. It would be nice to have privatized roads, but that is not at all logical. Ending government schools and letting the private sector handle the situation would be much more equitable. My tax dollars support so much crap it makes me sick. Why not privatize as many things possible. You pick out roads as your example. oy....
Extreme,
Would you simply place the $7K in individual's hands?
How would you ensure it is spent on education?
Skeeter,
I am with you. I do not want to pay for roads in DuPage County, nor do I want to pay for Roberto Clemente High School, with its murals of Che'.
If you really don't want to pay for other people's luxuries/necessities, then join up on the school voucher fight. It is thankless and miserable, and well worth it.
Your error in logic is in thinking that tax relief somehow pays for school vouchers. Your money is your money, till the state appropriates it. It is not the State's to give back to you, it is yours for the taking.
JBP
Bill, great topic. I support selling the schools.
Anon 6:44pm, Would you simply place $7K per child in the government's hands?
How would you ensure that it is spent on education?
Hint: A very high percentage of "education" money is not spent on education, but is spent on bureaucratic salaries, palacial buildings, you name it. That's how we got where we are today.
Be honest and answer this question: who is really interested in your child learning, receiving an education and doing well--the parent who will have to take care of a child who doesn't learn and hangs around the house a couple of extra decades, or the member of the teacher's union who is out picketing for a better contract and bigger paycheck?
I'm not for vouchers. How about this radical idea--Why don't we let parents, who are most concerned and interested in their child's education, keep money they (the parents) earn spend it on their child's education any way they think will help their child learn and be successful?
Minor quibble,
Providence St. Mel is not a Catholic School. It has a Catholic heritage and benefits from the support of individual Catholics, but is not owned or operated by the Catholic Church in any manner.
As with nearly every Catholic school, people of all and no religions are encouraged to participate at PSMel for the sake of universal education, a true catholic/univeralist goal regardless of denomination (or lack of denomination).
JBP
Lovie:
You choose not to use public schools.
I choose not to use Du Page roads.
Show me the difference?
Freedom has nothing to do with your position here. Stop patting yourself on the back. We are talking about religious schools. Honesty seems important to the discussion.
'basically what Hickey--and I rarely agree with him and his 19th/Joyce apologetics--but Hickey is correct that if the Archdiocese closed down all its schools that the Public system could not accomodate. Private schools help overcrowding and cost.' Anon
Glad to see some common ground on a vital issue, my friend.
Until school choice for parents becomes a step to education reform -education ain't ready for reform.
The public schools in America have underperformed at level that would give Dante the bends and they have made home for people with no business in education.
The religion element is a smokecreen - Catholic schools are the second largest educational system in America and all of the other schools (Lutheran, Jewish, Dutch, Moslem, and non-denominational are merely tossed into the mix ( or in with the Micks) for PC blowhards and shills.
BTW - Anon., give me a couple of months while I mix metaphors for my friends in the 19th Ward and beyond - putting new oils to the palet.
Private schools spend less money because they need to spend less money.
It is amazing what motivated students and parents can do.
Want to see public schools spend less? Get the parents involved.
Of course public schools have bloated budgets and are top heavy in administration. The solution is to reform the public schools and not to abandon them.
Pat Hickey,
I agree with your support for Educational Choice. Something needs to be done to keep private schools in low income areas open.
However, don't diminish other types of schools, even if the Catholic School system is the largest non-governmental provider of education. There used to be a strong Lutheran (especially Missouori Synod) school system. Today there are still in Chicago and the suburbs a number of good K-8 Schools (St. Andrews Lutheran in Park Ridge is excellent and there is still a Grace Lutheran School in the predominantly Mexican and Catholic Little Village community) The Dutch Reformed have a number of good schools including Timothy Christian which is routinely scored high.
Despite public perception to the contrary, the top 4 or 5 schools (Based on average ACT and SAT scores) are NOT public (government actually because they are not for the Public)nor are they New Trier BUT are Private Schools (not all Catholic either including: 1) University of Chicago Lab School (almost always number 1, private-not Catholic) 2) Benet Academy in Lisle (which is the most impressive as it is not as hard as others to get in and most impressively is a relatively low cost school 3) 3 and 4 and 5 tied for average ACT scores were Northridge Prep, Willows (both lay schools not officially Catholic but inspired by Opus Dei) and St. Ignatius (where Pat Hickeys Bev rat friends have a lot of sway)
New Trier is 5th or 6th. Loyola Academy is 12th. Now with North Side Prep (Aurora Math and Science was not included only Chicago area)is ranked higher and harder to get into that Loyola Academy or New Trier.
Muslims have some very good schools producing many medical doctors and engineers including the schools in Villa Park (DuPage?) and Morton Grove (associated with the MCC on Elston)
Rev. Meeks has grade and High Schools associated with his so called Temple and best Church in the World. African Americans are routinely better served by private education whether it be the Stroger family by Catholic schools and St. Katherine Drexel (the founder of St. Xavier, private non-sectarian but Classics fan Marva Collins, the Muslim school(s) or the Baptist and Christian private schools like Meeks runs. The Chicago Public School system, even with some good exeptions of schools and teachers, is doing a great diservice to the African American community. Most of the elected officials and their kids go to private many times Catholic schools, they do not use the Public Schools. The politicians in Chicago use the Catholic Schools, or pull strings to get their kids into the best public schools (Magnet etc). I do not blame them for wanting the best for their kids, just that they don't want to afford others the same opportunity. Emil Jones complains that the Catholic Church isn't keeping the good Black Catholic Schools open but than doesn't give them any funding.
Even the so called liberal and champion of Public education, Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr went to the best Episcopalian Prep school St. Albans, and anti-Choice President William Jefferson Clinton (educated at Catholic schools as a low income non Catholic) sent his daughter to exclusive Sidley Friends (Quaker) private school and not the predominantly African American Public schools in Washington DC.
There are some decent Chicago Public School system High Schools, but most grades schools are still low quality (there are some exceptions like Edison gifted)
Lane Tech, Kenwood, Walter Payton. Some are improving like Taft. But the MAJORITY still are poor. The statistic is that ONLY 6% of CPS students entering Freshman year matriculate to graduate college. That is pathetic.
In the so called Hispanic community, drop out rates are 50 to 70% and high schools like Juarez or Farragut are jokes. What would you rather the kids do, let their parents choose Cristo Rey, San Miguel, Lourdes, Maria, or for the more affluent or better students DeLaSalle, Brother Rice--many who cannot get into North Side Prep so called PUBLIC or do not live in Wilmette or Winnetka to go to New Trier. Private non governmental school choice is MORE DEMOCRATIC AND EGALITARIAN. Most polls show almost 80% support in Hispanic areas for School Choice.
The Jewish community has some great schools like the Conservative (as in religious denomination) Anshe Emet Jewish Day School. The Chabad and other Orthodox community(ies) like Agudath Israel have small, effective network of Jewish schools educating children without governmental support. Parents pay property taxes and school tuition that is unfair and a double tax.
Also on the left, some very good educational options like MONTESSORI (although originally a Catholic concept and Maria Montessori was very devout Catholic) or Waldorf or some very good but rare Quaker schools.
The more choices, options, parental involvement the better.
School Choice works in EUROPE, Vermont, and to lesse extent on micro levels (even with opposition and sabotage) in Ohio and Wisconsin. Choice works with rich parents who have the money to make choices. A voucher (or scholarship) is the great equalizer).
Don't discount schools that could come up if a voucher system was put in place. The Catholic (official Archdiocese) does an incredible job and is huge, but it is not about a system but about kids, their parents choices AND selection and choice regardless of religion.
School Choice is the best idea to help solve the issues in education. We need to get away from thinking about systems, and more money and to focus on the kids and the choice of the parents.
Pat Hickey should not discount other schools besides Catholics because he thinks it is PC (or not PC) or only focusing on size. Hopefully the above (with Dutch Reformed, Muslim, Lutheran, Jewish, Waldorf, Montessori) demonstrate the greatness of different educational options. Choice is good. Religion, spirituality, values, and cultural traditions are good.
Sk,
If you
"Want to see public schools spend less? Get the parents involved".
Go ahead, what is stopping you?
If you want "The solution is to reform the public schools and not to abandon them"
Go ahead, what is stopping?
By why on earth should I pay for it, if you want to experiment with school reform and I do not?
I change some words around
The solution to a bad restaurant is reform, and not to abandon it. If a restaurant serves bad food, why not abandon it?
What is your photo of?
Invest in the children, NOT a building called a school or bureacrats.
Um, Skeeter, public roads are a neccesity, public education is a convenience.
When people say that teachers are not paid enough or are paid less than garbage men, and in many cases that is true, they are not talking about some of the ADMINISTRATORS and PENSIONS that are sky high and ridiculous and many school districts have very high paid teachers.
Lovie's Leather said...
Um, Skeeter, public roads are a neccesity, public education is a convenience.
11:12 PM
WHAT?
***
JB,
I am not wild about some of the leadership of the U.S. military. In particular, I do not believe that we should be pulling out of Afghanistan as our current U.S. military is planning.
My solution: Let's privatize the U.S. Army, since I think a private Army would be more to my liking.
Are you with me?
Also, I really hate congestion every time I have to travel through Du Page. I can't believe the County could be that bad at maintaining roads. Let's privatize all Du Page County roads, since traffic is such a mess.
With me on that one?
Ultimately, nothing prevents you from sending your kids to private schools. Just don't make me pay for your child's religious education.
You are not, the parents are already paying through their taxes. Government should pay for KIDS educations not subsidize systems. Government should not discriminate against people of faith because they don't want to use the severley flawed government run so called public system.
Headstart is a "voucher" program and allows religious institutions to participate. (with many restrictions that I think are bad)
More on point is the GI Bill (and other forms of educational funding) that makes college money portable that you can take to a Yeshiva, Norte Dame, BYU (Mormon) or anywhere else you CHOOSE, not government forcing religion just not hurting it and it is good for society. Most universities were not public or government run at first BUT religiously inspired including all the Ivy League. University of Chicago has a chapel. Northwestern has Methodist roots. The anti-parental choice movement is based in the stupidist elements of anti-religious secularism and more specifically anti-Catholicism.
The Catholic school system actually did better for the poorer and immigrant families that were not being served by the anti-immigrant and anti-Irish Anglo Saxon dominated school system. So the Catholic schools have always been a better option for poor and immigrant and "minority" families. Government run education, on the whole, has never served these people well with some notable exceptions.
A parent choosing a non-governmental school for whatever reason including religion, class size, type of program etc. does NOT affect you or your tax dollars and in fact is fair, equitable (to stop discrimination and double taxation) and is better for society.
Yes Skeeter,
I am with you. Lets reduce government, be it military or road builders, there is a huge amount of room for privitization.
However, as stated above, you are not paying for my daughter to go to Lutheran school, nor am I asking you to pay. I will pay myself with my own money, given that the State does not requisition my money to pay for your failed experiments in education.
JBP
JB POWERS EXACTLY
If we all pay for education it should be for the KIDS and NOT for a failed secular "Public" government system that is failing.
It is most failing minorities and low income. It also does have a value system that many parents do not agree with which amounts to a de facto "church" instilling values in those kids.
Parents should choose those values (with some in loco parientes exceptions like health, abuse, negligence etc.) NOT government.
JBPOWERS is paying (assuming) property taxes and state income taxes that go to a "Public School System" if he opts to send his child to the Lutheran school, (he does get a small tax rebate since 2000 in Illinois which has been determined to be constitutional and helps fairness and has been good and helps keep some of these schools open)--He is doubly taxed.
Why not let him take a voucher or scholarship from the government in a set amount or in all or part of the amount of his taxes that go to education. Many minorities (including with money depending on geography) and certainly low income in many areas canNOT use their local public schools because of safety etc. Why punish them? Why not allow choice in education? Why doubly tax and penalize religious people educationally?--that is religious discrimination.
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