tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post117250675214108328..comments2023-11-30T04:19:29.368-06:00Comments on ILLINOIZE: Dead end issue for GOPRich Millerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05405714376169753223noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1172627347610403242007-02-27T19:49:00.000-06:002007-02-27T19:49:00.000-06:00Who said an embryo is fully human? Roman Catholic...Who said an embryo is fully human? Roman Catholic Church as not even gone this far.Prof. Goldblatt Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11750218589175401938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1172584770344508812007-02-27T07:59:00.000-06:002007-02-27T07:59:00.000-06:00anon 10:45,Brilliant false conflict. Totally igno...anon 10:45,<BR/><BR/>Brilliant false conflict. Totally ignoring the fact that the State has been raiding Pension funds to pay it's bills, you make a proposition that skips science and economics to pose a unncessary ethics question.<BR/><BR/>The State is in the Red. We should not speculate much of anything till our bills are paid.<BR/><BR/>JBPJBPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17015371340244747070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1172583736760071822007-02-27T07:42:00.000-06:002007-02-27T07:42:00.000-06:00Steve, the dispute is whether an embryo is fully h...Steve, the dispute is whether an embryo is fully human. I'm with the judge in Cook County who interpreted Illinois law to say yes. But this isn't a moral question i.e. how to behave; it's a definition.<BR/><BR/>Anon, Firefighters risk their lives running into burning buildings to save property; not just people. <BR/><BR/>If they can't save all, they make priorities e.g. woman and children Bill Baarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07095486926836836714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1172551540857021092007-02-26T22:45:00.000-06:002007-02-26T22:45:00.000-06:00OK, Bill, assume all the humans got out of the res...OK, Bill, assume all the humans got out of the research facility. Would you demand that firefighters run into the building at risk to their very lives in order to "save" the frozen embryos that would be thrown out anyway?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1172538973351296592007-02-26T19:16:00.000-06:002007-02-26T19:16:00.000-06:00Bill,the morality can't be too clear or well-estab...Bill,<BR/>the morality can't be too clear or well-established, or we wouldn't have so much disagreement.steve schnorfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10898800797439322237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1172535833263963282007-02-26T18:23:00.000-06:002007-02-26T18:23:00.000-06:00NW Burbs,So because it is a bad investment, the St...NW Burbs,<BR/><BR/>So because it is a bad investment, the State should fund it? There are plenty of scientists out there to do most anything if you give them money for nothing. I can also provide you a list a mile long of terrible investments that no banker will touch...does this mean the State should step in?<BR/><BR/>Why wouldn't this go through the NIH or some other semi-respectable researchJBPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17015371340244747070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1172528291369062202007-02-26T16:18:00.000-06:002007-02-26T16:18:00.000-06:00I admit to being a recent convert to opposing this...I admit to being a recent convert to opposing this. It was Ron Reagan's kids speech at the dem convention that first got me wondering.<BR/><BR/>My friends mom had a treatment using embryos many years ago and they were very guarded talking about it because there Church was opposed way back then.<BR/><BR/>The morality on this is clear and well established.<BR/><BR/>If embryos are people. If they Bill Baarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07095486926836836714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1172526518077430552007-02-26T15:48:00.000-06:002007-02-26T15:48:00.000-06:00JB Powers,Government is getting involved in fundin...JB Powers,<BR/><BR/>Government is getting involved in funding the research precisely because of the ROI time-frame you mention.<BR/><BR/>Scientists are quite willing to do the work -- they just haven't had the money available.<BR/><BR/>--<BR/><BR/>Bill and others,<BR/><BR/>You want to pee on fire hydrants about semantics now? Call it whatever you want -- material, donations, frozen embryos, "Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1172525383832598902007-02-26T15:29:00.000-06:002007-02-26T15:29:00.000-06:00That's an exercise in triage anon. It's acceptabl...That's an exercise in triage anon. It's acceptable to triage lives if you can't save them all. <BR/><BR/>I've known firefighters to risk their lives for pets for that matter.<BR/><BR/>It's far different ethical question though than destroying life to develop clinical therapies for use by another.<BR/><BR/>Considering the commercialism in this, and the liability facilities may face with the Bill Baarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07095486926836836714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1172523576780891402007-02-26T14:59:00.000-06:002007-02-26T14:59:00.000-06:00To the embryo lovers out there, a question:If a re...To the embryo lovers out there, a question:<BR/><BR/>If a research facility was burning, would you rather that the fire department rush in to save the embryos first or the adults?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1172521074066273782007-02-26T14:17:00.000-06:002007-02-26T14:17:00.000-06:00A sure sign this won't go away is right here.........A sure sign this won't go away is right here...<BR/><BR/><EM>...ask donors whether or not they would want their material to be made available for research...</EM><BR/><BR/>The <EM>material</EM> are embryos and the question is are <EM>embryos</EM> people.<BR/><BR/>You know supporters of embroyonic research feel on thin ice if they have to frame <EM>embryos</EM> as <EM>material.</EM>Bill Baarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07095486926836836714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1172520610144555952007-02-26T14:10:00.000-06:002007-02-26T14:10:00.000-06:00We can sue a fertility clinic for wrongful death o...We can sue a fertility clinic for <A HREF="http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/02/23/colb.embryos/index.html" REL="nofollow">wrongful death</A> of an embryo in Cook County and the State is going to go ahead and fund research on embryoes.<BR/><BR/>Our law and lawmakers don't quite have their acts together on this one.Bill Baarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07095486926836836714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1172519724198838842007-02-26T13:55:00.000-06:002007-02-26T13:55:00.000-06:00How about as an economic issue? The State is taki...How about as an economic issue? The State is taking money from pension funds and schools to invest in research that no bank nor venture fund will touch. <BR/><BR/>The technology has about a 50 year time frame for any breakthrough, yet to demonize the pro-life movement as "anti-science" the left have trumped up this issue as somehow showing the progressive nature of their politicians.<BR/><BR/>JBPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17015371340244747070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1172519615244265632007-02-26T13:53:00.000-06:002007-02-26T13:53:00.000-06:00The only frozen embryos in discussion (as Richards...The only frozen embryos in discussion (as Richardson alludes by quoting the state senators) are those which are scheduled to be destroyed anyway as IVF facilities clean out their freezers.<BR/><BR/>In addition to that, modern IVF clinics routinely require consent forms to be filled out which ask donors whether or not they would want their material to be made available for research.<BR/><BR/>The Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1172518160574497682007-02-26T13:29:00.000-06:002007-02-26T13:29:00.000-06:00It shouldn't and isn't a partisan issue. Look at ...It shouldn't and isn't a partisan issue. Look at Cong Lipinski's postion. Some Democrats try and pretend it is and use it as a club against the GOP as a party dominated by the religious right.<BR/><BR/>It's going to take people a while to understand this issue but I think ultimately, the commercialization of human embryos for therapies is going to be recognized as unethical and immoral.Bill Baarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07095486926836836714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1172517276254985922007-02-26T13:14:00.000-06:002007-02-26T13:14:00.000-06:00Nooooo that's not quite how I see it. Why is it t...Nooooo that's not quite how I see it. <BR/><BR/>Why is it this joint is constantly victimized by Anonymous Drive By JerkBag? <BR/><BR/>You know, I think the problem with the "standing up for what they believe in" problem is a bit myopic in the sense that ultimately you're picking the losing side of the issue and making another example of how Social Cons are not compatable with modern Illinois Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1172516582693092392007-02-26T13:03:00.000-06:002007-02-26T13:03:00.000-06:00Great idea, stop opposing something just because e...Great idea, stop opposing something just because everyone else likes it. I'm for this issue, but I admire those who are against it for sticking to their guns. <BR/><BR/>Guess we just have a different appreciation for people's ability to back up their positions.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, thanks for the lame post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com