tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post116724842620525784..comments2023-11-30T04:19:29.368-06:00Comments on ILLINOIZE: Daily Southtown: Illinois has a good stem cell billRich Millerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05405714376169753223noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167501005632899982006-12-30T11:50:00.000-06:002006-12-30T11:50:00.000-06:00"their own project selection mechanisms?"How do yo..."their own project selection mechanisms?"<BR/><BR/>How do you think most university research gets funded?<BR/><BR/>You apparently believe (and correct me if I'm mistaken):<BR/><BR/>1. Government should only invest where it is in competition with the private market, i.e. where the private market has approved of an idea, the government should toss in more money to compete; and<BR/><BR/>2. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167443422047926572006-12-29T19:50:00.000-06:002006-12-29T19:50:00.000-06:00Given that the Basques had been fishing near Rhode...Given that the Basques had been fishing near Rhode Island for about 200 years without a State sponsor, it seems like you made the point exactly.<BR/><BR/>Rod Blagoevich is not exactly Queen Isabella when it comes to being a good character judge. <BR/><BR/>Ask yourself, do you really want a soon to be incarcerated-Elvis impersonating-friend of Tony Rezko's-making scientific and moral judgments JBPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17015371340244747070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167442352511302382006-12-29T19:32:00.000-06:002006-12-29T19:32:00.000-06:00Actually, going to the moon was about a two thousa...Actually, going to the moon was about a two thousand year project. I suspect that we could come up with tons of funding from the Middle Ages.<BR/><BR/>JFK was just responsible for the last couple of those years.<BR/><BR/>Like somebody else here referenced -- good thing that you were not around in the 1490s. You would have talked the governments out of funding that highly speculative sea voyage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167349924807264842006-12-28T17:52:00.000-06:002006-12-28T17:52:00.000-06:00From what I read, Embryonic Stem Cell research is ...From what I read, Embryonic Stem Cell research is highly speculative, with gains sitting out there 50 years, if things work out right.<BR/><BR/>Going to the moon wasn't a good investment (satellites were), but it was also not a 50 year time frame project. <BR/><BR/>There must be some other reason other than "nobody outside of politics wants to invest in this" for me to want the State to invest JBPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17015371340244747070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167338784872768382006-12-28T14:46:00.000-06:002006-12-28T14:46:00.000-06:00Your first 2:17 post was pretty insane.Based on th...Your first 2:17 post was pretty insane.<BR/><BR/>Based on the current status of research, you view stem cell research as junk science? Was that your point?<BR/><BR/>Or were you agreeing witn my point, i.e. no rational person would spend their own money to go to the moon, but doing so had benefits for us all, and as a result the government should become involved?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167337072167115282006-12-28T14:17:00.001-06:002006-12-28T14:17:00.001-06:00"If private financing would take care of it, we wo..."If private financing would take care of it, we would not need the government."<BR/><BR/>In most cases, we don't.<BR/><BR/>JBPJBPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17015371340244747070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167337023165526302006-12-28T14:17:00.000-06:002006-12-28T14:17:00.000-06:00OK,I have 100 plans that no rational person would ...OK,<BR/><BR/>I have 100 plans that no rational person would invest in. <BR/><BR/>Can we arrange for Sen. Shoenberg to get me grants as well? <BR/><BR/>Do we really want politicians making these decisions outside of any scientific methodology?<BR/><BR/>JBPJBPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17015371340244747070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167336815321020302006-12-28T14:13:00.000-06:002006-12-28T14:13:00.000-06:00"I repeat, is "no sensible person or bank will inv..."I repeat, is "no sensible person or bank will invest in it" a good reason to ask the State to invest?"<BR/><BR/>That is EXACTLY the reason that government should invest.<BR/><BR/>If private financing would take care of it, we would not need the government.<BR/><BR/>The government should never be in competition with the private market.<BR/><BR/>We've gone off on a tanget though.<BR/><BR/>For BaarAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167335891753639062006-12-28T13:58:00.000-06:002006-12-28T13:58:00.000-06:00SK,No, the morality is sketchy and unclear, and ra...SK,<BR/><BR/>No, the morality is sketchy and unclear, and rational people can make a moral case for either side. <BR/><BR/>The economics are much more clear. I am not convinced a rational person can make a case for wasting money, while the state is essentially bankrupt.<BR/><BR/>I repeat, is "no sensible person or bank will invest in it" a good reason to ask the State to invest?<BR/><BR/>Can't JBPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17015371340244747070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167326270135110312006-12-28T11:17:00.000-06:002006-12-28T11:17:00.000-06:00JB,If you don't like the economic uncertainty, the...JB,<BR/><BR/>If you don't like the economic uncertainty, then don't invest in it.<BR/><BR/>Where is the economic certainty of going to the moon?<BR/><BR/>Where was the economic certainty in messing around with mold that got us some of the wonder drugs?<BR/><BR/>That's exactly the point: There is no economic certainty but the potential benefit to society is massive.<BR/><BR/>Face the obvious, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167325989050458262006-12-28T11:13:00.000-06:002006-12-28T11:13:00.000-06:00Come to think of it, is "the State should fund X, ...Come to think of it, is "the State should fund X, because no sensible banker will fund X" a very good reason to spend money on a technology?<BR/><BR/>Using that logic, what technology couldn't you fund? Perhaps the State should fund Healing crystals, laetrile, and witch doctors; no bank will touch them either.<BR/><BR/>JBPJBPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17015371340244747070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167325473249462742006-12-28T11:04:00.000-06:002006-12-28T11:04:00.000-06:00First and foremost, I don't like stem cell researc...First and foremost, I don't like stem cell research for the economic uncertainty of the product. If I am investing money, Jeff Schoenberg and Governor Blagoevich are two of the last people I would ask for advice. <BR/><BR/>Not coincidentlly, if I were doing medical research Jeff Schoenberg and Governor Blagoevich are also two of the last people I would ask for advice.<BR/><BR/>In general, I am JBPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17015371340244747070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167320908406620712006-12-28T09:48:00.000-06:002006-12-28T09:48:00.000-06:00JBP,I don't think that is the case. If you know of...JBP,<BR/><BR/>I don't think that is the case. If you know of venture caps looking at basic research, have them call the hospitals. The money is needed and despite your claims, there remains a lack of funding for basic research.<BR/><BR/>Good thing you weren't around during the JFK years. You would have told him that all this "moon" crap should be left to the private sector.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167319620950239332006-12-28T09:27:00.000-06:002006-12-28T09:27:00.000-06:00Sk,I have a long list of unprofitable projects the...Sk,<BR/><BR/>I have a long list of unprofitable projects the state could take on, each of which has as good of a chance as stem cell research of curing paralysis. With the glut of Venture Capital money out there, surely people would be throwing money at a project to cure paralysis.<BR/><BR/>Could it be politics trumping science? <BR/><BR/>JBPJBPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17015371340244747070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167318001981795362006-12-28T09:00:00.000-06:002006-12-28T09:00:00.000-06:00JB,Because some of the basic research is not profi...JB,<BR/><BR/>Because some of the basic research is not profitable. Through basic research, doors are opened to the specifics.<BR/><BR/>There is a difference between opening a diner (a business venture) and doing basic research now that may in 50 years result in a cure for paralysis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167317471036245982006-12-28T08:51:00.000-06:002006-12-28T08:51:00.000-06:00So.."Are you going to ban masturbation?", no but s...So..<BR/><BR/>"Are you going to ban masturbation?", no but should we ask Senator Schoenberg for a subsidy for it?<BR/><BR/>Why does the State have to pay for every risky business idea, when it cannot fund its pension system? <BR/><BR/>JBPJBPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17015371340244747070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167317389544668912006-12-28T08:49:00.000-06:002006-12-28T08:49:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.JBPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17015371340244747070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167272681711879472006-12-27T20:24:00.000-06:002006-12-27T20:24:00.000-06:00With regard to China --Sometimes a practice is goo...With regard to China --<BR/><BR/>Sometimes a practice is good and useful, despite the fact that at times and places there can be abuses.<BR/><BR/>Just because China abuses organ donation doesn't mean the rest of the world should end organ donation.<BR/><BR/>Similarly, just because there may be some abuse in the in vitro process does not mean that we should end all in vitro.<BR/><BR/>That's Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167272524141044362006-12-27T20:22:00.000-06:002006-12-27T20:22:00.000-06:00Baar:Are you going to ban masturbation? After all,...Baar:<BR/><BR/>Are you going to ban masturbation? <BR/><BR/>After all, at one time both you and I were at a phase of life when we were nothing more than individual sperm.<BR/><BR/>That didn't make us less human, did it? If an unimplanted embryo that has no chance of developing into a human unless a doctor acts on it to implant it, and then it turns out that the embryo has what it takes to developAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167264046321340452006-12-27T18:00:00.000-06:002006-12-27T18:00:00.000-06:00PS I'd sure ban organs harvested from China! (And...PS I'd sure ban organs harvested from China! (And I think we do.)<BR/><BR/>You would allow? Perhapes because the come from people at a phase of life that makes them less than human?Bill Baarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07095486926836836714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167262174676661832006-12-27T17:29:00.000-06:002006-12-27T17:29:00.000-06:00If you push me, I'd say against. Certainly agains...If you push me, I'd say against. Certainly against anything that leaves all of these embryos afterwords. <BR/><BR/>As for organ donation... yes, I've seen it abused. It should be heavily regulated although we seem unable to deal with what's happening in China, Pakistan...Bill Baarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07095486926836836714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167260549113135392006-12-27T17:02:00.000-06:002006-12-27T17:02:00.000-06:00Baar,You danced around the issue.Are you for or ag...Baar,<BR/><BR/>You danced around the issue.<BR/><BR/>Are you for or against in vitro?<BR/><BR/>On a related note: How do you feel about organ donation? It has the potential for abuse. In fact, there are stories that actual abuse has occurred (Chinese prisoners). As a result, are you ready to ban organ donation?<BR/><BR/>Or should we move forward with organ donation -- and in vitro fertilizationAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167260399199664202006-12-27T16:59:00.000-06:002006-12-27T16:59:00.000-06:00Crash -- I agree with your comments.Part of the re...Crash -- I agree with your comments.<BR/><BR/>Part of the reason is that there is no clear line between "cells" and "baby" but instead there is a progression.<BR/><BR/>For me, an embryo in a dish is much farther removed from a baby than is an implanted growing embryo.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167259928994034892006-12-27T16:52:00.000-06:002006-12-27T16:52:00.000-06:00My views have changed with time. Not too many yea...My views have changed with time. Not too many years ago I would have been with the Liberal consensus.<BR/><BR/>Abortion seems a clash of rights to me. A woman's right to control her body vs the unborn child's right to life. I used to feel the woman's right far outweighted the unborn but partial birth and learning about the born-alive laws changed me there. But it's still a clash of rights.<Bill Baarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07095486926836836714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1167257418184376602006-12-27T16:10:00.000-06:002006-12-27T16:10:00.000-06:00skeeter, My interest in this was the ordinal relat...skeeter, My interest in this was the ordinal relationship of ethic-ness between Abortion and Stem Cells,<BR/><BR/>Namely, Bill Barr's distinction that embryotic stem cell work is less ethical than abortion. I have always felt the opposite.<BR/><BR/>I know a number scientists who do lab work on rat brains and other things like that. I could see myself as one of them. But if I was to have a child, crash-devhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04858577670947314819noreply@blogger.com