tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post116345773659697514..comments2023-11-30T04:19:29.368-06:00Comments on ILLINOIZE: Rough Week for RepublicansRich Millerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05405714376169753223noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1163690741727263862006-11-16T09:25:00.000-06:002006-11-16T09:25:00.000-06:00By refusing to point out even one mistake by Charl...By refusing to point out even one mistake by Charlie, you are effectively building your case on a faulty premise - which is what irritates me more than any personal connection to Charlie (especially since I don't have one). Your logic is that Zinga lost, Charlie ran the campaign, therefore Charile did a lousy job. Post hoc ergo propter hoc.<BR/><BR/>Respectfully, I disagree. The 17th District grand old partisanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10258795327487150279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1163633428974936902006-11-15T17:30:00.000-06:002006-11-15T17:30:00.000-06:00Yes, you are wrong.It was an open seat in a margin...Yes, you are wrong.<BR/><BR/>It was an open seat in a marginal district.<BR/><BR/>A good campaign could have taken it.<BR/><BR/>I am not going to point out every mistake by Charlie Johnson.<BR/><BR/>If you think, after observing his work here and elsewhere, that he is a valuable part of the GOP, then continue to hire him. If not, then go in a different direction. <BR/><BR/>Ultimately, I found Skeeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03271109506393354557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1163626897204163662006-11-15T15:41:00.000-06:002006-11-15T15:41:00.000-06:00skeeter, if you're interesting in scrapping the sa...skeeter, if you're interesting in scrapping the sardonic remarks and engaging reality here, answer me the following questions:<BR/><BR/>Am I wrong in maintaining that Zinga was gonna lose that race no matter who was involved in it? Yes or no.<BR/><BR/>Did she at least beat expectations? I say she did. If you disagree, explain why.<BR/><BR/>The fact that she did better expected means those grand old partisanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10258795327487150279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1163625984871112612006-11-15T15:26:00.000-06:002006-11-15T15:26:00.000-06:00I'm not bitter at all.My side won that race, and I...I'm not bitter at all.<BR/>My side won that race, and I believe every other race where Charlie has been involved.<BR/>Like most Democrats, I hope Charlie has lots of business in 2008.<BR/><BR/>Bitter? No. I'm pretty happy about this election and the role played by Charlie.Skeeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03271109506393354557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1163623146615108542006-11-15T14:39:00.000-06:002006-11-15T14:39:00.000-06:00No offense to Charlie, but at this point I could c...No offense to Charlie, but at this point I could care less about him, skeeter. This is about your inability to actually debate facts or details (despite your claim to be a champion of “intellectual honesty”).<BR/><BR/>If Charlie did a “very poor job” running the Zinga campaign, as you claim, then you should back that up with something. You say that he got Zinga some “very bad press and even grand old partisanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10258795327487150279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1163622091130740702006-11-15T14:21:00.000-06:002006-11-15T14:21:00.000-06:00Keep hiring him, GOP.Fine by me.Keep hiring him, GOP.<BR/>Fine by me.Skeeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03271109506393354557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1163611256716677192006-11-15T11:20:00.000-06:002006-11-15T11:20:00.000-06:00"Whether the gerrymandering was by Dems or the GOP..."Whether the gerrymandering was by Dems or the GOP doesn't really matter."<BR/><BR/>Huh? You think that Dems would have gerrymandered districts that put them at a disadvantage? It matters very much WHO did the gerrymandering - and in Illinois, that was the Dems. And they redrew the 17th in such a way that Lane Evans got a 7% bump between 2000 and 2002. It was a Dem district in a Dem year, grand old partisanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10258795327487150279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1163608300302963442006-11-15T10:31:00.000-06:002006-11-15T10:31:00.000-06:00Whether the gerrymandering was by Dems or the GOP ...Whether the gerrymandering was by Dems or the GOP doesn't really matter.<BR/><BR/>What matters is that Dems were able to overcome it nationally by running good campaigns. The Dems knocked off 30.<BR/><BR/>BECAUSE OF people like Charlie Johnson, the GOP knocked off zero. <BR/><BR/>Support the guy if you want. I shouldn't tell you how to run your party, especially when you think that Charlie Skeeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03271109506393354557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1163607523557056122006-11-15T10:18:00.000-06:002006-11-15T10:18:00.000-06:00"Given all the Republican gerrymandering"Are you s..."Given all the Republican gerrymandering"<BR/><BR/>Are you serious? You really think gerrymandering is a partisan problem?<BR/><BR/>Put the kool-aide down for a second and take a look around. Who drew Illinois's map last time? We're not the only state controlled by a Democratic legislature you know.grand old partisanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10258795327487150279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1163605837554819912006-11-15T09:50:00.000-06:002006-11-15T09:50:00.000-06:00"What do you make of the fact that Zinga - in an a..."What do you make of the fact that Zinga - in an anti-Republican year - did the best of any Republican candidate in the 17th since it was re-gerrymandered to be a lock for Democrats?"<BR/><BR/>I make of it that an opponent with good name recognition ran for an open seat. Of course she's going to do better against Hare, who nobody knew, than Evans.<BR/><BR/>Let's face it: The national tide was Skeeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03271109506393354557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1163543755913443512006-11-14T16:35:00.000-06:002006-11-14T16:35:00.000-06:00skeeter -What do you make of the fact that Zinga -...skeeter -<BR/><BR/>What do you make of the fact that Zinga - in an anti-Republican year - did the best of any Republican candidate in the 17th since it was re-gerrymandered to be a lock for Democrats?<BR/><BR/>I'm not saying Charlie didn't make mistakes - but even a flawlessly managed campaign wasn't going to flip that seat. And to Charlie's credit, this was hardly a stunning win for Hare or an grand old partisanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10258795327487150279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1163541437674211312006-11-14T15:57:00.000-06:002006-11-14T15:57:00.000-06:00I'm sure Rich Miller will be thrilled to be called...I'm sure Rich Miller will be thrilled to be called "Progressive."<BR/><BR/>That being said, it is remarkably easy to follow a race outside your home district.<BR/><BR/>Finally, I encourage you to keep backing Charlie. I generally like to see Democrats win, and when Charlie gets involved that almost always happened.<BR/><BR/>"The candidate did not properly say what I told her to say."<BR/><BR/>Skeeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03271109506393354557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1163538034501843142006-11-14T15:00:00.000-06:002006-11-14T15:00:00.000-06:00Wow, who knew that people in the 42nd Ward were fo...Wow, who knew that people in the 42nd Ward were following the Zinga/Hare race so closely. Skeeter, do you know anything about the campaign that Charlie ran other than what you read on the "progressive" blogs you frequent?<BR/><BR/>Whether it's due to Charlie's work or not - in a heavily Democratic year in a district that has been heavily gerrymandered to favor the Dems, Zinga did 4% better than grand old partisanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10258795327487150279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1163536435000730462006-11-14T14:33:00.000-06:002006-11-14T14:33:00.000-06:00Way to spin, Charlie.Too bad you are much better a...Way to spin, Charlie.<BR/>Too bad you are much better at promoting yourself than your candidates.<BR/>Zinga looked like a fool. She looked Not Ready For Prime Time and you made it worse.<BR/><BR/>I would like to see an alternative to Democrats in Illinois, because I would like to see my party stay honest and because I will always support true fiscal conservatives, no matter what party they call Skeeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03271109506393354557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1163532255304478232006-11-14T13:24:00.000-06:002006-11-14T13:24:00.000-06:00Ahh, yes, Skeeter...the screwed up flag giveaway a...Ahh, yes, Skeeter...the screwed up flag giveaway and profiling flap. That drove us up five points in polling over the course of a couple weeks. My only regret about it is that we couldn't keep the controversy going through election day.<BR/><BR/>That is one of your weaknesses. A lot of times when you think you have gotten us, you're really helping us because you have such a tin ear as to what theCharlie Johnstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15079123099199975901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1163527877557961572006-11-14T12:11:00.000-06:002006-11-14T12:11:00.000-06:00You left out a major issue.The people running the ...You left out a major issue.<BR/>The people running the GOP campaigns did a very poor job this year.<BR/>For instance, the person running Zinga's job got his candidate some very bad press and even screwed up a flag giveaway.<BR/>Around the rest of the state, the GOP did nothing more than to brand the opponent a "liberal" which just gets tiresome. Voters don't listen to that anymore.<BR/><BR/>The Skeeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03271109506393354557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1163526594519054862006-11-14T11:49:00.001-06:002006-11-14T11:49:00.001-06:00mosmess bring up some fascinating points that illu...mosmess bring up some fascinating points that illuminate the cognitive dissonance within "the Democratic mind."<BR/><BR/>I agree that there is an unfortunately (and pathetically) large number of Democrats who still haven’t gotten over Bush simply being President in the first place, and feel that he and Cheney represent what is “truly evil with conservative republican politics.” But what does thatgrand old partisanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10258795327487150279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1163518934607582802006-11-14T09:42:00.000-06:002006-11-14T09:42:00.000-06:00I'm aware a substantial minority of Democrats feel...I'm aware a substantial minority of Democrats feel that way. But make no mistake; it is not a strength that propels you, but a weakness that cripples you. If that is the passion that fires your governance the next two years it would be truly bad for Republicans because they would not need to reform to retake the majority. Obviously, it would be even worse for you Democrats.Charlie Johnstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15079123099199975901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14463601.post-1163508128200239932006-11-14T06:42:00.000-06:002006-11-14T06:42:00.000-06:00Amazing how people are surprised by last Tuesday. ...Amazing how people are surprised by last Tuesday. I hope no one is confused that the feelings that drove last Tuesdays result will be gone by the 2008 vote. Here's what a lot of democrats still passionately believe (and don't under estimate the passion they have for these):<BR/>- The 2000 election was stolen from them. It still irritates them significantly. And they are reminded every time Mr. monelson6https://www.blogger.com/profile/08272066685862574505noreply@blogger.com